The War Against Christianity: Iraq

KIRKUK, Iraq (AP) — Iraqi Christians on Wednesday called off Christmas festivities across the country as al Qaeda insurgents threatened more attacks on a beleaguered community still terrified from a bloody siege at a Baghdad church two months earlier. A council representing Christian denominations across Iraq advised its followers to cancel public Christmas celebrations out of concern over new terror attacks and as a show of mourning for the victims of the church siege and other violence. Church officials in the northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul, the southern city of Basra and in the capital confirmed they will not put up Christmas decorations or hold evening Mass and have urged worshippers to refrain from decorating their homes. Even an appearance by Santa Claus was called off. “Nobody can ignore the threats of al Qaeda against Iraqi Christians,” said Chaldean Archbishop Louis Sako in Kirkuk. “We cannot find a single source of joy that makes us celebrate. The situation of the Christians is bleak.”

37 thoughts on “The War Against Christianity: Iraq”

  1. Tragic.

    Christians are martyred for their faith around the globe at a horrific rate.

    And the incidents are mostly ignored.

    Examples abound, but the persecution of the Chinese belonging to underground churches come to mind.

    As far as abandoning Christmas symbols and traditions because of hostility, maybe there’s a lesson for Christians here in the USA as they see their sacred holy day of Christmas under relentless and increasing attack year in and year out.

  2. I forgot to add the fact that about 171,000 Christians are murdered each year because of their faith.

    This is to say nothing of those who remain alive, but who are persecuted, tortured and imprisoned because of faith in Christ.

  3. Dude, these whiny Iraqi Christians should just buzz off. Seriously, Iraq is the land of the “religion of peace” and tolerance.

  4. Nina Shea paints a broad picture of what is happening to non-Muslim communities.

    “The fact that within the Muslim Middle East indigenous non-Muslim religious communities across the spectrum — Christians of every denomination, Jews, Zoroastrians, Sabean Mandeans, Yezidis, Baha’is — are all rapidly heading toward extinction, while Muslim sects flourish in the same areas, points to this underlying phenomenon of Islamic radicalism.”

    To read her article, go here:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/255824/christmas-middle-east-nina-shea

  5. We need to let the Muslim world know, in no uncertain terms, that if a major attack is carried out on one of our cities in the name of Islam, we will erase Mecca. Maybe if they fear this retaliation they will start trying to remedy the situation.

  6. At some point Muslims have to forget about the Christian Crusades. The fact we Christians did everything we could to eradicate Muslims from the face of the earth is old news. On balance, over the grand sweep of things, religion does more harm than good. Christians vs Muslims Catholics vs Protestants. Does the good of religion come close to overcoming the evil of religion?

    The NYT magazine had a good piece about the origins of Capitalism how philosophers sought to redirect the passion of civilization away from religion and national pride, into the less destructive realm of commerce.

    Christians and Muslims have much to atone for. However it does appear Christians started it.

  7. ….we will erase Mecca.

    In the wake of 9/11 one of our main concerns was that Muslims not be discriminated against, in the wake of the Christmas day bomber our main concern was that Muslims not be profiled and our military could not even get rid of an Islamic fanatic in their midst and yet you expect them to feel threatened?

  8. At some point Muslims have to forget about the Christian Crusades.

    It is ironic that we can hardly even profile Muslims for things that happened a few years ago and yet many Muslims profile Christians based on things that happened thousands of years ago.

    The fact we Christians did everything we could to eradicate Muslims from the face of the earth is old news.

    Although the call to jihad is often pronounced in European, as well as in Muslim capitals, few Westerners have understood what it really means. Analysts deliberately mislead the public by using the Crusades in order to create a sense of moral equivalency between Christianity and Islam and to calm European concerns about jihad.
    They ignore, of course, that jihad, as an ideology and a praxis, was unremittingly active in Asia, Africa, and Europe four centuries before the Crusades.
    (Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis by Bat Ye’or :31-32)

    On balance, over the grand sweep of things, religion does more harm than good.

    On balance the illiteracy, abject ignorance and unfathomable stupidity typical to both the “imagine no religion” Boomers and the “we are the world” MTV generation does more harm than good, mainly because the decline of American civilization will cause harm.

    Christians vs Muslims Catholics vs Protestants. Does the good of religion come close to overcoming the evil of religion?

    Without a system of beliefs or traditions having to do with morality, i.e. religion, what does good or evil mean?

  9. Modern America is an extremely tolerant place, otherwise we would have rounded up white anti-government Christians after Oklahoma City. Islamic Jihad killed around 3000 on our soil, anti-government Christians rank number two with around 200. That’s what makes profiling so difficult. We know the Catholic Church is all but bankrupt because of pedophilia. Do we keep all Catholics away from kids or do we try to zero in on the criminals among them? Prior to 2001 American Christians were undisputed champs eradicating native Americans and negroes. Not sure about the genocide against natives in South America. Where the Spaniards Godly people? Just trying to keep things in perspective. Americans are well aware of our past sins, we are now the most tolerant society on Earth. Eventually the world will follow.

  10. Evidence? Depends if you mean past centuries or modern times. Maybe you can tell us where you think religious warfare started, who are the worst offenders. Whose hands are clean who are dirty. Over the centuries, religion is by far the bloodiest of all human endeavors.

    I read Bin Laden’s Fatwah. His main bitch was American troops in Saudi Arabia. Of course we Americans know we have oil interests in the Islamic world entitling us to do pretty much anything we want in their neck of the woods. Like in Iran in the 1950’s and 1960’s. The Iranian people with an elected government did not like the deal they where getting from Western oil interests so they decided to make their own rules about their own oil. Result we installed the Shah of Iran with a CIA police force to keep him there. Result Iran goes nuts against us. We of course simplify it down to Islamic fanaticism.

    There are are billion of these ancients believing what they have believed for centuries in the Old Muslim World. We waltz over there with oil and Christianity and Israel like it’s all one big Western party. I understand we are the vanguard of civilization. I also understand the roots of the hatred directed towards us. It is not enough to simple say we are the good, they are the bad.

  11. Modern America is an extremely tolerant place, otherwise we would have rounded up white anti-government Christians after Oklahoma City.

    This isn’t a matter of rounding anyone up, it’s a matter of basic pattern recognition and knowledge that the Leftist mind smothers. When Malik Nadal Hassan said that Muslims have the right to rise up against the U.S. military and so on* that’s the “profile” of an Islamist who should be discriminated against.

    *E.g., from an internet posting:

    “…..Suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory…..”

    Islamic Jihad killed around 3000 on our soil, anti-government Christians rank number two with around 200. That’s what makes profiling so difficult.

    Being reasonable actually isn’t that difficult, although apparently the goal of undermining and destroying Western civilization makes it so for some.

  12. Over the centuries, religion is by far the bloodiest of all human endeavors.

    So if religion is the bloodiest and so on what is your solution?

  13. We waltz over there with oil and Christianity and Israel…. I understand we are the vanguard of civilization. I also understand the roots of the hatred directed towards us.

    So do you understand the hatred directed against the Jews? If so, what do you think causes it?

  14. Depending on ethnic profiling is a misdirection. You have to profile by a varitey of factors especially behavior.

    Your claim that McViegh’s crew motivaton was religious is at best misinformation.

    The Crusades were not Christians picking on poor innocent Muslims. They were an important and necessary counter attack. Mohammad didn’t grow Islam by peaceful evangelism. He did it by violence. Europe was being over run by Muslim tyrannts. The Crusades that you so condemn are what has given you a free and prosperous life. You would have almost nothing that you have without them. The early Crusades stopped the Muslim hoards from killing and enslaving in Europe like they did in Northern Africa. What the Muslims hate about the Crusades is that they lost.

  15. FYI, I am all for profiling we do it all the time everywhere. Do we need to put up a sign that says “We profile here”. Everybody knows what the overt threat looks like. The dark bearded guy with the furtive look. That does not mean blond blue eyed old ladies get a pass. That’s just giving the play book away to the enemy.

    What is the solution to the bloodletting religion inspires? I refer back to the recent NYT essay tracing all the great thinkers from Socrates on to Adam Smith talking about commerce being the vent for the animal side of mankind. In modern times we see that play out as detente with the Soviet, hyper trade with China. Capturing a market is more noble than pillaging a village. Global commercial competition the fanatical pursuit of wealth is the alternative to fanatical pursuit of religion and ideology that crippled mankind until recently.

    Hatred for the Jews in the Middle East? Guess that’s a biblical stupidity thing where primtives still argue about Mohammad Jesus Temples On Mounds. I say get a life. But the fact we Westerners decided to defy every nation
    every leader, every single person in the Muslim world by plunking the home of the Jews right smack dab in the middle of their living room does not help the love hate relationship. Why did we not install Israel in South Jersey or Sweden. Why in the middle of a cauldron that did not want that? Some biblical thing I guess where the Palestinians blah blah blah. Let give South Carolina to the former slaves as reparations. See how that works out.

  16. “[T]he Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.” And “what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator,” quoting George Washington.

    Fortunately, our founders had a better understanding of human nature than anon1. I would much rather be a part of a religious society (any religion) than a secular one. Religion, marriage and family, civil government, and markets are the four corners of civilized society.

    Your devotion is materialism. Materialism has killed more people than misguided religion or religious application. Most crimes, wars, or other grabs of power are to gain materials.

    How did the Crusades become so degenerate? They became about the material. Criminals populated the later crusades so they could loot and commanders couldn’t control them. It became about power plays and money at the highest levels whether or not the name of religion was attached. Most things of this nature are not about religion, patriotism, even workers revolution or other values, those are just manipulations of what is obvious if you look below the surface, man’s baser nature to conquest for personal gain. The problem is not religion or partiotism or commerce. It is us. Those items actually help direct and restrain our baser self and aid in our civilization.

  17. David, where did I “so condemn” the Crusades? I referred to the Crusades as a way to say the pursuit of religion is drenched in blood. I don’t think it’s healthy to dwell on that junk. Nobody thinks “poor Muslims”. Some of them are just as nuts as some of us. The whole world is turning away from that kind of stupidity. It’s up to America to gently guide the transition to a more civilized, less dogmatic world. I think we are doing a good job of it.

    McViegh’s crew could be profiled as lily white all American boys.

  18. I refer back to the recent NYT essay tracing all the great thinkers from Socrates on to Adam Smith talking about commerce being the vent for the animal side of mankind.

    And yet the the survival of the fittest mentality that Darwin projected* onto nature despite the evidence is being shut down by progressives in the world of economics. Apparently they don’t even believe their own creation myths.

    *A fact recognized by proponents:

    The link of Darwin to Malthus has been recognized and accorded proper importance from the start, if only because Darwin himself had explicitly noted and honored this impetus. But if Darwin required Malthus to grasp the central role of continuous and severe struggle for existence, then he needed the related school of Scottish economists…to formulate the even more fundamental principle of natural selection itself.
    ….
    In fact, I would advance the even stronger claim that the theory of natural selection is, in essence, Adam Smith’s economics transferred to nature.
    (The Structure of Evolutionary Theory by Stephen Jay Gould :122)

    It’s an insult to animals to say that economic systems which happen to harness man’s greed have to do with man’s “animal side.”

    Hatred for the Jews in the Middle East? Guess that’s a biblical stupidity thing…

    Then why don’t Zoroastrians, Jews, Christians and others demonstrate the same sort of hatred for Muslims who have a history of being the bloodiest religion? You said that the problem was bloody religion, after all. Cite a Zoroastrian or Buddhist creating an ideology of this sort despite what Muslims have done to them historically:

    Abu Hajjer concluded the interview with this message to the youth he trained: “You must do something, you must fight the enemies of Allah, the Crusaders and the Jews, and become a bone in their throats and hearts.” Such declarations have been repeated endlessly since the seventh and eighth centuries. They are not provoked by circumstantial modern events; they belong to a civilization created by and based on jihad, jizya for infidels and dhimmitude.
    (Eurabia by Bat Ye’or :159)

    Why in the middle of a cauldron that did not want that? Some biblical thing I guess…

    Note history:

    After 1939, weapons and money from Germany poured into Arab nationalist circles, in particular to the Palestinian Arabs. Hitlerian propaganda, expounded on no fewer than five weekly radio programs to Arab countries, was particularly active in Syria where the Palestinian Arab High Command operated. Spread by Arab intellectuals, this propaganda intensified after the visit by Nazi officers in 1937. ….
    Many paramilitary organizations on the fascist model were created in Arab countries between 1937 and 1939. In Egypt the list included the Blue Shirts (Wafd), Green Shirts, Territorial Army (royalists), and the religious militia of the Muslim Brothers. ….
    Anti-Judaism created identical situations throughout the Arab world: economic discrimination, sporadic assassinations, the burning of synagogues, bombings and attempted murders. In Iraq, dozens of Jewish civil servants in the ministries of Finance and Transport were dismissed in 1934. ….. Emigration to Palestine was prohibited and the teaching of Hebrew forbidden, except when reading the Bible, and then without a translation or interpretation. Inflammatory sermons in mosques and massive demonstrations punctuated by shouts of “Death to the Jews” encouraged violence. Jews were stabbed in the streets or in their shops in Aden…, Baghdad…, Basra… and Damascus…. Bombs thrown into synagogues claimed several victims in Baghdad… Beirut… Cairo, Mansurah, Mahalla, and Asyut… The Nazi victories intensified this campaign; fired with enthusiasm, mobs announced a great massacre of the Jews.
    During 1941, contacts at the highest level were maintained between the Nazis, Arab nationalists, and Egyptian and Iraqi officers. …. Despite Rashid Ali’s flight on 29 May at the approach of British forces, Iraqi soldiers, police and members of youth groups seized Jewish pedestrians, bound them hand and foot, and threw them under the wheels of tramcars; others were stabbed. Murder, pillage, rap, and the burning of Jewish shops and houses continued for two days during which 170 to 180 Jews were killed and several hundred injured.
    On 28 November 1941, the mufti of Jerusalem …. met with Hitler in Berlin to discuss the Arab-Nazi alliance and the methods to exterminate the Jews.
    …..
    With Europe in the north occupied by the Axis, and the pro-Nazis hysteria of the Arab peoples in the southern and eastern Mediterranean, Oriental Jewry was virtually trapped. The Vichy government ruled over the French Arab colonies in North Africa, Lebanon, and Syria, while fascist Italy controlled Tripolitania, and Rommel stood at the gates of Alexandria. In the East, Arab nationalists in Baghdad had already shown their intentions by fomenting a massacre of Jews in 1941…
    (Islam and Dhimmitude by Bat Ye’or :171-172)

    Where were they supposed to go to escape “radical” Islam, exactly?

  19. Some of them are just as nuts as some of us. The whole world is turning away from that kind of stupidity.

    That has more to do with your whole world of provincial American progressivism and the mythologies of Progress typical to it than the rest of the world:

    A superficial observer might conclude that the war against terror could have been avoided altogether if America had adopted Europe’s policy of accommodating terrorism. In fact, nothing is further from the truth. The current conflict stems from much deeper problems, which the EU tries to conceal or engages superficially through empty interfaith and cultural dialogues. According to an international survey by the Pew Global Attitudes Project….attitudes expressed by the population in Morocco reflect a clear trend toward religious intolerance and very wide support for the Islamikazes. Among the Moroccans, 45% favored Osama bin Laden; 60 percent approve the suicide attacks against Westerners and Americans in Iraq; and 73 percent habor negative opinions of Christians, while only 2 percent have a somewhat favorable one. Negative sentiments regarding Jews are exhibited by 92 percent, with only 1 percent having positive feelings for them.
    (Eurabia by Bat Ye’or :247) (Emphasis added)

    It’s up to America to gently guide the transition to a more civilized, less dogmatic world.

    Becoming more civilized has absolutely nothing to do with being less dogmatic. An example from history:

    It is hard to explain what the neopagans….believe. They do not know themselves. Their movement is a part of the new nationalism and of a peculiar National Socialist mysticism. It has no articles of faith and it parades its lack of dogma. All of the various types of neopagans are agreed only in one thing-their rejection of Christianity….
    (The Nordic Pagan Chant Grows Louder
    by Albion Rossberlin
    The New York Times, Aug 4, 1935; pg. 3-4)

    McViegh’s crew could be profiled as lily white all American boys.

    Your capacity for pattern recognition is minimal.

  20. mynym, I think you get carried away surmising what “progressives” think. I am all for progress, not sure if that is progressive. You might be harkening back to the 1930’s the early days when communism was thought to be a viable contender in the minds of man. Since then communism has come and gone. Progressive does not mean anti-Capitalism. I know of know “progressives” who deny the virtue of profit motive as a means to general prosperity. There may be celebrity pundits who make a living inventing such threats, but reality says we are all on board with Capitalism. You, me, Obama, Ding Chow Whatshisname in Red China. The business of the world is business. The war of Capitalism versus Communism is over. You should pop a balloon, drink some champaign, stop fretting over progressives hating wealth profit. There are fresh new things to worry about in the 21st century.

    Most everybody also acknowledges that America is founded on principles way beyond mere Capitalism. Things like liberty and justice for all promoting the general welfare pursuing happiness. So if some progressive like me says I’m glad the Credit Card Act restricts banks from ripping me off, or I’m glad the new Financial Reforms permit shareholders to have some non-binding role in executive pay, on that there needs to be a new transparent market for derivative trading, on that health insurance companies are required to pay out in healthcare services 85% of premiums collected, I think all that is good progressive. Like a new honesty about who is serving in the military. All good all progress. Nothing at all to do with hating making money, getting filthy rich.

    Reminds me of Rush Limbaugh and the gang. Always making up imaginary characters they can save us from. Like all those people who want to destroy the free market punish successful people hate profit. Until you ask the simple question. Who? I voted for Obama and Coons. I love everything to do with wealth, always trying to get some for myself.

  21. David, I forget. Did George Washington have slaves? Life is full of puzzles. That Godly colonial society you yearn for was Godly for white people. It was in the name of that very Godly society back then that we slaughtered everybody and everything in our way from Indians to Mexicans and buffalos, as Manifest Destiny was calling us white Europeans onward and upward.

    I have no beef with that part of our history. It is what it is, I am proud to be American. Our barbarism is not much worse than all who went before us. But your suggestion that there is some great difference in behavior separating the Godly from the secular does not hold water. Would Christ have slaughtered the Indians, invaded Mexico, bought and sold other humans as slaves? There is a difference between talking about God and being Godly. I am sure many a Southern KKK member invoked God’s name at the lynching. The Southern slave holders were very very big on God and Church and all that.

  22. Yes, he did. How did he obtain and treat them? He obtained them by inheritance or marriage. One was his best friend and refused to take freedom until Washington’s death. Did he free them? In his will. Did he offer other slaves a path to freedom through military service? Yes. Did he support the ablolition of slave trade? Yes. Was he vexed about the institution and did he work to weaken its grip? Yes

    You are an educated man, how is it that you seem not to know basic history?

  23. I suppose you went off on a tangent about socialism because you have nothing to say about the original topic of bloody religion. If you were trying to point to intolerance and religion as such a problem in the world then why are you trying to avoid and minimize the intolerance typical to Islam?

  24. David, I think I have a decent layman’s knowledge of American history. I agree with you. Washington was probably one of the nicest slave holders there was. My comment was in reply to your suggestion that somehow a society that professes to be Godly behaves in ways that distinguish them from secular. That religion yields are more just society than non religion. I don’t see any evidence of that. America is 80 per cent Christian. Regardless of any arguments for or against secularism, we are a much more Godly nation now than then. As a Christina, I am interested in the exercise of Christian principle, not simply the professing of loyalty to a religion.

    mynym, where am I minimizing the intolerance of some Islamic fanatics? I really think the talk radio TV celebrity pundits have hoodwinked you into thinking some of us “progressives” don’t get the Jihad radical crazy fanatic rotten bastard suicide bomber threat. It’s just boring to rehash the obvious. Everybody in America knows who the enemy is. The trick is trying to sort it all out. Thinking real hard about who we go after, who we kill, who we lock up is very serious business. Especially for Americans. We are the freedom brand.

    And no, I got into progressives and socialism because you made some assertion about “progressives” trying to shut down capitalist economics or some such thing. My point was that is another talk radio TV celebrity pundit myth you need to get over. If you quizzed the top 500 economists in and out of government I doubt you will find anyone of stature who thinks capitalism has to be shut down. The only question today is how best to throttle the Capitalist engine, harness the energy so we have a smooth ride. Every revolution in the past couple centuries has to do with the rich versus poor. That’s why our American system of redistribution has served us so well for the last 100 years.

  25. For those who blame religion for the most deaths, you may interested in the fact that the greatest number of killings in the name of atheistic ideology occurred in the communist Soviet Union, where over a period of some ten decades or so, nearly 61,000,000 people were murdered. Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due forced labor in gulags.

    Mao Tse tung was responsible was responsible for anywhere between 30,000,000-60,000,000 deaths.

    More facts are available within the Black Book of Communism, which was written by French ex-Marxists who researched the carnage committed by regimes determined to eradicate religion.

    To this day there are extensive gulags within China.

    Plus, the fact is that at this time and place in history, it is Christians who are the most persecuted people on the face of the planet–and some seem to think they deserve it because of the Crusades??

    [My goodness, has Bill Holt has entered the building under the name Anon2? Sure writes like him. Just saying…]

    😉

  26. …where am I minimizing the intolerance of some Islamic fanatics? I really think the talk radio TV celebrity pundits have hoodwinked you into thinking some of us “progressives” don’t get the Jihad radical crazy fanatic rotten bastard suicide bomber threat. It’s just boring to rehash the obvious.

    That’s ironic, I was just thinking that the majority of what you write is obvious and a rehash of things that everyone learns in public school. Anything from Washington owned slaves to “….we slaughtered everybody and everything in our way from Indians to Mexicans and buffalos…” are things that even ignorant schoolboys know due to being taught Leftist modes of thought. What they typically doesn’t know are the complexities and details which confound the simplistic Leftist narratives that you are repeating here.

  27. …I got into progressives and socialism because you made some assertion about “progressives” trying to shut down capitalist economics or some such thing.

    Beginning with the supposedly conservative Bush a progressive mentality is shutting down a survival of the fittest Darwinian mentality in favor of survival of who can find a corrupt politician to bail them out and so on. It’s ironic because the creation myths typical to moderates and progressives are based on projecting capitalism onto nature. And this is assumed to be how progress in nature comes about no matter what the empirical evidence shows. In fact, evolutionary creation myths are one of the main reasons that they think they are more intelligent than others and so on. Yet it turns out that they’ve come full circle and do not believe that Darwinism applies to economics even when that is how Darwinian theory came about in the first place.

  28. Back on the topic:
    ….where am I minimizing the intolerance of some Islamic fanatics?

    Are the majority of Moroccans merely “some Islamic fanatics”?

    If you can’t admit that the majority of people who take Islam seriously tend toward intolerance then you are minimizing the problem. When “moderation” is support for discriminating against or killing Jews but not everyone else, that’s a problem. “Moderately” treating everyone who isn’t a Muslim as a second class citizen while forcing them to pay a special tax and so on is also a problem.

  29. mynym, not sure where we disagree. Hard to say how many of the billion Muslims love Jihad. Hard to say if the Pope is a pedophile or even how many evangelicals are closeted gays. All we can do is guess at these things. I am pretty tolerant of it all. Not sure what the alternative is. All I can do is live a good tolerant loving Christian life, hope for the best. Plus cheer on the President for sending the Predators into Pakistan.

  30. FayV, you little devil. I just can’t slip by you. Merry Christmas. May 2011 be a stellar year for Christian American hegemony.

    Last I checked there were only 2.3 billion Christians left in the world and they owned most everything, including the most popular brand of religion on earth. Not bad for a beleaguered embattled religion. Plus we Christians have the added bonus of remotely operated drones synchronized with a vast array of overhead satellites able to strike anyone, anytime, anywhere, and without warning. If that is not enough to keep them from bothering us, I don’t know what is.

    Be more discerning when it comes to those communist genocide numbers. We have huge agencies devoted to nothing but number fudging. So does Russia and China. They tell their people Americans killed 50 million Indians. They say we still keep some inside “reservations”. Soviet propaganda used to gin up all kinds of crazy numbers about slaves in United States history. Pravda ran long pieces saying the United States was built on forced slave labor, with entire families forced to pick cotton day and night whippings and lynchings for anybody rebelling. Big public auctions where one human gets to purchase another. I don’t swallow all the propaganda, no matter who it comes from. Is there any modern nation without a barbaric past? Why pick on the commies? They were just another ambitious bunch trying to find their way like we did. Slash burn pillage was not invented by the Reds. The other guys dirt always looks so much dirtier than our own dirt. We butchered 500,000 Americans in just five years trying to figure out how to set up our American system. Called it a Civil War. Wonder what the Russian and Chinese call their genocide? The Great Leap Forward or Manifest Destiny or something. ‘Tis the season to reflect.

    Anyway, merry Christmas.

  31. Fay!!! No unprovoked outing please. I have to slap your hand on that one. 🙂

    It was a long two weeks, Bill. Welcome back. I look forward to your wit and dialog. I am glad to see you are back giving constructive feedback and challenges. I enjoy that. I look forward to the next couple of years being filled with it.

    I don’t know what happened to spark that short period, but the past is gone and the future is ahead. Comeback under what evername you choose. Just try not to have more than two, it confuses things (that is not a rule, just a suggestion).

  32. Hard to say how many of the billion Muslims love Jihad.

    Not it isn’t, whoever takes the teachings of Mohammad seriously will love jihad. Fortunately most Muslims do not take the Koran and Islamic tradition seriously, although they tend to sympathize with those who do.

    I am pretty tolerant of it all. Not sure what the alternative is.

    It’s knowledge. Given that you’ve said that you’re a Christian and so on I’m curious what that means to you. Does it mean that Jesus was the Son of God? People who combined a socialism with nationalism in the past have had different ideas about it:

    The party stands on the basis of Positive Christianity . . . . Dr. Zoellner and Count Galen have tried to make clear to me that Christianity consists in faith in Christ as the Son of God. That makes me laugh . . . No, Christianity is not dependent upon the Apostle’s Creed . . . True Christianity is represented by the party, and the German people are now called by the party and especially by the Fuehrer to a real Christianity . . .
    (The Rise and Fall of the
    Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany
    by William Shirer :239) (Empasis added)

    Given that socialists in the past have often claimed Christianity while rejecting the defining characteristic of Christianity, i.e. that Jesus was who He claimed to be, I’m curious as to what you think about it. Does Christianity “consist in faith in Christ as the Son of God” as Galen insisted or does it consist in something “real” like the good of the nation or social justice, progress and so on?

  33. mynym, you are getting carried away with the Muslim thing. My guess is the vast majority of all humans are pretty much decent people. Regarding Christianity Jesus and all, I was raised Catholic went to Catholic School was taught all about why God made me. It was a good thing. I believe in Jesus sure. But for me Christianity is not about a set of beliefs as much as it is about a way of life.

    I have nothing scholarly to base this on, but somewhere along the line being a Christian came to mean being a good person who does not steal cheat exploit people. A Christian is very forgiving tolerant turns the other cheek. Does unto others. Loves all. Feels the same bond with those who are most downtrodden poor helpless as did Jesus. Believes in social justice as in our pledge with liberty and justice for all.

    Christians are very mellow folks in my mind. Good natured forgiving. Does that mean when New York City gets attacked we don’t like sending in the Nighthawks? No. But it does mean try really hard to hate as few people as you can.

  34. I forgot to add that being a Christian also means not being so frightened by the world around us. That business of walking through the valley in the shadow of death and fearing no evil? I learned that early it stuck with me. That’s why I am not real afraid of communists and Muslims and gays and liberals and the Tea Party and all that stuff. I really do not fear evil as much as some non-Christiana I know. My Christian upbringing keeps me strong. In the vast sweep of history it always seems that the good prevail in the end. I have witnessed in my lifetime in the fight against communism.

  35. Americans are well aware of our past sins, we are now the most tolerant society on Earth

    What does ‘tolerant’ mean? Does it mean that you sit on your hands as your culture is undermined?

    Progressive does not mean anti-Capitalism.

    Of course it does. It is a euphemism for socialist. The left figures that ‘liberal’ has worn out its welcome, so the media decided to resurrect ‘progressive.’ It’s semantics, but the desired end is the same- statism.

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