Question on North “We Got Nukes” Korea
Jun 19th, 2009 by RSmitty
Reports are coming fast and furious that North Korea intends to do an ocean launch of a test-nuclear missle aimed dead-on at Hawaii. The PRESUMPTION, because we all should agree that anything that government puts out is propoganda (stealing their term), is that this is intended to fall well short of the Island-State, but the intent to flex muscle is there.
Question:
If North Korea follows through on this “test” from their ship in the Pacific Ocean, consider they are doing it from INTERNATIONAL waters, not their territorial area, and they are knowingly and willfully (and wantonly) doing it with Hawaii in their straight-line target-site, will….
…North Korea have provoked or invoked a legitimate act of war, an act that the international community, including the UN, has already proactively condemned, thus making legitimate any military response against them?
Smitty addendum: Look, I hate war, I hate military aggression, I hate sending people into combat which makes them effectively proxies for everyone here, big time. I wasn’t against the move into Afghanastan, because that was a response. From Iraq-onward, it’s been wrong, wrong, wrong. This dust-up with North Korea is different. NK is absolutely being the antagonist in this one and they very well may be DIRECTLY threatening the US. The problem is, with their history, we have no real idea what they will do. They have proven that they (the government there) will release outright lies to distract what they are doing with the “other” hand. They most certainly can not be ignored, but what to do about them is indeed a daunting question.
We’d have to be careful; if NK follows through on this, possibly the best short-term action would be to move a battle group near NK’s coast and fire a few missiles towards its territory — but have ‘em come up short.
Didn’t think about that. This is going to be real war games that we (the US) haven’t seen in a long time. I am making a distinction between the blanket-bomb response versus an extremely strategic and methodical approach, something to the likes of the Cuban Missle Crisis. I will admit that this has me a bit unnerved.
Let’s admit that they would have never threatened Bush like that. They think this administration is weak minded because of its weak words. They may find out otherwise.
Hmmm…. attacking Hawaii? maybe they should ask the Japanese how that story ends.
That said - Haven’t we performed actual nuclear tests in the Pacific that are closer to Korea than their missile launch will be to Hawaii?
I would be cautious about overreacting, since as far as I know they do not yet have the capability to put a nuclear warhead on a missile.
Noman, you touched on why I intended this to be an open question. What to do? It’s a crappy situation.
David A - I disagree. I wholeheartedly believe the only reason this is now and not during Bush is the timing. I don’t think they cowered at all during Bush. Have you completely forgotten the saber rattling they did then? Their leadership is so focused on either propelling themselves into the higher world order (as a matter of fact, they are DESPERATE for that) or reinvigorating the old communist-block addage of destroying the way of life of the west, they don’t give a squat who is in charge here. Really, I am not interested in Bush v Obama in this thread. Have at that in yours. My focus is what to do.
What to do?
China is the key. Get on the phone with the Chinese and figure out what they want from us to put a stop to this.
David A. apparently thinks we should borrow more money from the Chinese so we can maintain 44 instead of 30 missile defense silos in Alaska.
I would support that. More importantly, I support defense research to give us a better missile defense system. President Obama is cutting it.. That is what not to do. The best way to deal with these guys is to make them closer to irrelevant.
I would point out the difference between Saber rattling and threatening U. S. territory. Of course the last time, they could barely get it off the launch pad.
I think the harder question is how do we get China to see that it is in their interest to reign in PRK before someone gets hurt.
I honestly don’t think China wants to deal with this. Aside from some tough comments here-and-there, have you noticed how they try to avoid these controversies on the world stage anymore? Don’t get me wrong, either, I don’t think they’ve become passive in any sense, but I think, to them, now that they are a massive economic power, the less attention they bring upon themselves, the better they feel. They know their shizzit stinks and is foul, but so long as they stay away from the spotlight, no one seems to “notice.”
David A,
We know that you love the law n order policies of North Korea, and that you’re happy that they have two American journalists locked up, but “they would have never threatened Bush like that” is another height of your idiocy.
They became a nuclear power because BUSH DID NOTHING TO STOP THEM!!! They did not have nukes in 2000. They developed them WHILE BUSH DID NOTHING! Who was the President when the North Koreans tested their first nuke in 2006? BUSH! What did he do? NOTHING!
We have wasted our military power and prestige in Bush’s stupid Iraq war, and the world knows you can’t win two-front, let alone three-front wars.
Your foolishness is really beyond belief.
It was more that Bush “doing nothing.” It was Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive war, combined with his Axis of Evil speech, that caused Iran and North Korea to conclude they needed to develop nuclear weapons to survive.
“Haven’t we performed actual nuclear tests in the Pacific that are closer to Korea than their missile launch will be to Hawaii?”
so in noman land:
Kim Jung Il is the same as Barac Obama.
They have the right to nukes same as US.
We can’t impose our culture on them by telling what to do, so lets pay a bribe by way of China and hope the whole thing goes away….
A-ninny…. Do you remember what China did the last time we invaded the Korean peninsula?
A-ninny…. Do you remember what China did the last time we invaded the Korean peninsula?
So, if I were to expand this line, can we eventually expect another run of M*A*S*H?
If we invade Korea, the first thing will will have to do is take on the ruined South Korean economy as a dependency of the US. And I don’t believe North Korea will let us get away with defeating them without turning South Korea into rubble.
And that is assuming China remains neutral.
so in noman land there are only two options:
pay the bribe or invade North Korea and refight the Korean War.
I see you have given up hope on Obama Diplomacy
Just blow their damned missles out of the sky.
If the test commences, Rick, I really think we will see that happen this time. It’s after that I am thinking of with this post.
If North Korea’s Missile was capable of flying over Hawaii the U.S. would shoot it down. Japan has the right to be concern and should shoot it down.
China is the key to the solution of this problem. Either they step up and resolve the problem or step-down and not interfere with our actions or that of Japan’s.
One reason I voted for Obama was Joe Biden’s experience with foreign affairs. I would have not vote for Obama if Clinton or any one else was his running mate. So where is Joe? Obama is talking tough but we all know he doesn’t have the balls. Sooner or later it will come to a conflict and if big mouth Joe pushes Dim-fuck-Cho to blink first then our response wouldn’t be seen as the aggressor.
It’s time for China to act or it forces the U.S. to react.
Rick & Smitty,
I disagree, I don’t think we will shoot down their missle.
1. if we hit it, all we achieve is stopping this one test and raise the tension level.
2. if we miss, we expose our own weakeness. We are better off having an untested defense system that the world thinks will probably work than demonstrating a system failure.
(I say this not knowing how good our system is… it may be 100% good to go)
If we shoot down their missile, we freak out generals all over the world and instigate the development of new swarms of ICBMs, cruise missiles, and short-range submarine launched missiles.
1. “if we hit it, all we achieve is stopping this one test and raise the tension level.”
Good. You can’t sell anything without creating a sense of urgency.
“if we miss, we expose our own weakeness.”
Not having the guts to try demonstrates weakness.
20noman
“If we shoot down their missile, we freak out generals all over the world and instigate the development of new swarms of ICBMs, cruise missiles, and short-range submarine launched missiles.”
Wow ! Great ! Perhaps Markell can get Delaware’s idle factories a piece of those defense contracts!
Rick
“Not having the guts to try demonstrates weakness.”
Dam right!
It would take more guts to hold our fire and let it splash in the ocean, while we continue to work on the real problems.
That type of thinking Noman is the weakness that inspires tyrants.
“….let it splash in the ocean”….norman
Or, on Chinese territory. Sooner or later, one will. And that will be that.
“Dear Leader” lacks both the brains and morality of Josef Stalin and would feel at home with the likes of Idi Amin. North Korea is a victim of wounds inflicted by the leadership and any pseudo-crisis that can be concocted to turn the people away from questioning Kim will be exploited.
Few leaders of industrialized states are willing to risk total war. This would include only the more rational dictators.
We can say the same for the gang running Iran.
My thoughts this weekend are becoming focused on Kim Jong-il wanting to go out in a blaze of glory, given all signs reporting to his imminent death (meaning at some point this year). So far, his legacy has been that of a pig-headed leader of a country that gets further and further into a human suffering abyss; unless you are military, then you are taken care of. If he’s about to die, wtf does he care how he leaves the planet? He’s one of the few that concern me in the regard to if it doesn’t affect him, then he truly doesn’t give a rat’s ass.
The best assessment of the Kim mindset might have been provided by the satirical film “Team America, World Police”.
Q: Why is Obama going to let the North Korean missile hit Hawaii?
A: Because then he can say that THEY destroyed his Birth Certificate!