Open Thread on the Issue of Race in America

An old issue has been at the forefront of public discussion the past few months. Racial inequity has been called America’s original sin. People who wanted liberty for themselves did not always rush to protect the liberty of those may look a little different or speak a different language than they do. In the 1800’s the doctrine of white supremacy took hold in large swaths of America. It almost tore us apart. We struggled through a Civil War, Reconstruction, a counter reconstruction called Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement which was the successful heir to Reconstruction.

I believe that Institutional racism is dead. We won the war after 350 years. There is no doubt that legacy racism exists and is like a scab that keeps being picked at by the race baiters on all sides.

I believe that we need to deal with the legacy issues in a straight forward manner. First, let me admit that I do believe in the silly notion of race. It truly is a social construct as that silly woman from Washington proved. The fact that someone finally found it beneficial to pass as black instead of white shows that we have made some progress just like in a weird way Bruce/”Caitlin Jenner shows that we made progress in the way that we treat women. An hundred years ago, some women pretended to be men to get more opportunity. Scientifically, race does not exist in humans. Why do we insist on perpetuating it with state sanctioned forms?

One thing that Johnson was right about was that we need to act affirmatively to correct the wrongs of the past. That is a Biblical principle. The Apostle Paul wrote in the Epistle to the Ephesians “Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.” (Eph. 4:28 ESV). The principle is that when you change, you replace negative action with positive ones. Bless instead of curse. Go the extra mile. Give instead of stealing.

The first step is to just stop it. Do not be a respecter of persons or one who plays favorites. Judge everyone by their own character. Walk in love. Encourage others to do the same.

The second step is to act justly. Do not pervert justice based upon one’s resources or connections. Ensure that the government treats everyone with respect due a human being. Due process of law is a must.

The third step is to provide equal opportunity. Ensure the education system works for everyone who will use it. End the disparity of resources on the public side. State and federal education money should follow the child. Children with disabilities should get the tools they need to succeed. We need discipline back in the schools not criminal prosecution for children behaving like children. We need to teach children that they can achieve not that they are hopelessly oppressed. We then need to give them the practical tools of financial literacy, relationship skills, leadership, reading, writing professionally, logic, and mathematical thinking.

The fourth step is that we need to celebrate each other’s achievements and traditions. Diversity is good. We can have diversity and not divisiveness. We can respect and learn from one another.

24 thoughts on “Open Thread on the Issue of Race in America”

  1. I believe that Institutional racism is dead?..

    Since we have a black president, that is obvious.

    Scientifically, race does not exist in humans.

    How so? By whose “science?” The post-Franz Boas era academics with a social agenda, that’s who.

    Racial differences are obvious. Skin color, eye color, skull shape and bone structure, to name a few. There are numerous difference between a Samoan, a Ugandan and a Swede. Then, there are the cultural tendencies associated with the various races. Who but the Oriental regularly eats with chopsticks? Who but the Caucasian eats cheese from an aerosol can? Not that it matters, since human social traits, needs and desires tend to be universal, but there most definitely are races- simply use your own two eyes.

    We need discipline back in the schools not criminal prosecution for children behaving like children.

    Carrying- and using- a 9mm pistol isn’t behaving like a child, it’s behaving like a criminal. Which is normal behavior in the inner city.

    The first thing we can “give” disadvantaged youth is a two parent family. Unfortunately, “we” can’t “give” them that. After all, you can’t mandate responsibility. And that, at the end of the day, is the problem.

  2. Ah you are not distinguishing between two boys who push each other in the hall way and a kid threatening another with a gun. One is criminal behavior and the other is a discipline issue. Not distinguishing between the two is a huge problem. You can solve the little problem with a lecture, detention, and if it happens again 3 swats with a paddle. The other demands armed people to control it. If you deal with the simple one early, you rarely have to deal with the criminal one later.

  3. With all due respect to Jon Stewart it’s easier for him to point out Black vs. White than Jew vs. the goyim. You want to see some streets named after racists?

    But I do think a lot like him, as far as pointing out the insanity of going to war over “national security” while pretending that races, Blacks, Browns and Whites and national identities rooted in countries do not exist.

    To weave in the other threads, the Russians are who they are despite many other ethnic groups living there due to “the Russians.” What is a Russian? What’s an English or Anglo? It’s an interesting subject, yet these groups of people obviously exist.

    So this maniacal White guy felt like his country is being taken from him or a Dooms Day is approaching, the White primal fear.. aka winter in the past, most likely. But if race doesn’t exist, then I guess we don’t need to look at his race.

    Meanwhile, Joe Biden preaches about an “unrelenting stream” in the background even when all this ethnic and racial conflict already exists. It’s a stream that he will not live to see the results of and apparently he doesn’t care.

    The irony here is that indigenous African Americans that tend to think of themselves as a minority are as unlikely to survive an “unrelenting stream” as any of the rest of us are. Maybe our children can join with whatever Native Americans are left? 🙂

    Send in the Jewish comedian Jon Stewart without a joke, because it’s no joke.

    Note that they’re building their own ethnic state, whatever having a Jewish State means. So like the Jews, maybe Whites and Blacks and others should try figure this stuff out before muddling through or dreaming about melting pots to melt away racial groups that supposedly don’t exist in the first place and what not.

    Wait, what do you need a melting pot for if race doesn’t exist?

    Shrug. More rambling…

    Life is good, except when it isn’t.

  4. We all want our group identities but we don’t want to take responsibility for idiots like this WHITE guy that murdered Black people in a sanctuary.

    I’m with Jon Stewart in some ways. Just look at it honestly, perhaps even more honestly than he does.

  5. Rick June 19, 2015 at 15:09 “Then, there are the cultural tendencies associated with the various races. Who but the Oriental regularly eats with chopsticks?”

    Is that genetic?

    If an Oriental infant was adopted by a Mexican family and raised in Tijuana surrounded by Mexicans, would he eat with chopsticks?

    This begs the question of what you mean by “culture.”

    The culture of the White people of Rome led them (immorally) to conquer the other White people of Europe, who tried to stop them but failed.

    The degenerate culture of modern Greece in 2015 is leading to economic ruin and disaster.

    If a Mexican baby were adopted by a Chinese family and raised in China, would he play soccer or ping pong? Would he eat enchiladas or Gen. Tso’s chicken?

    Is it genetically determined that Orientals eat with chopsticks?

    Or is that just the culture they grew up in?

    Racial differences are obvious. Skin color, eye color, skull shape and bone structure, to name a few. There are numerous difference between a Samoan, a Ugandan and a Swede.

  6. Rick wrote: “Racial differences are obvious. Skin color, eye color, skull shape and bone structure, to name a few. There are numerous difference between a Samoan, a Ugandan and a Swede.”

    Not really. The differences among members of the same ethnic group can be greater than the differences between ethnic groups.

    When a group of us went to Russia, an Irish woman with Black hair was mistake for a Slavic Russian woman.

    Rick, you’d be surprised at how much ancestry you have in you from other ethnic groups.

    There is only one race: The human race.

    Racists and anti-semites and cultural conspiracy theorists try to imbue ancestry with mystical superstitious significance, trying to steal authority from the Bible most of all.

    Well the Bible says that all humans on Earth are descended from one family: Noah’s family.

    All other people on the Earth were killed by the flood.

    We are — literally — all cousins. We are literally one family.

    Don’t believe the Bible is factually true? Well you can’t borrow mystical significance from the Bible without running afoul of the Bible’s message: All human beings are the same family.

  7. Mynmn writes: “Note that they’re building their own ethnic state, whatever having a Jewish State means. So like the Jews, maybe Whites and Blacks and others should try figure this stuff out before muddling through or dreaming about melting pots to melt away racial groups that supposedly don’t exist in the first place and what not.”

    But the Jewish state includes 1.4 million Palestinian muslims who are voting citizens of Israel.

    So, yes, what does it mean to be a Jewish state?

    And why do you try to make an issue out of Israel being a Jewish state when 1.4 million Israeli voters are Palestinian Muslims?

  8. Ah you are not distinguishing between two boys who push each other in the hall way and a kid threatening another with a gun. One is criminal behavior and the other is a discipline issue. Not distinguishing between the two is a huge problem.

    But in your initial post, you “didn’t distinguish” the difference either;

    We need discipline back in the schools not criminal prosecution for children behaving like children.

    Carrying guns, bullying and selling drugs at school is not behaving like child.

    Yes, I understand your point. But, I have a point, too.

    “Then, there are the cultural tendencies associated with the various races. Who but the Oriental regularly eats with chopsticks?”

    Is that genetic?

    It was a simple example of “cultural tendencies” (which tend to create cultural stereotypes); but, perhaps it is genetic, since DNA varies among the races.

    The culture of the White people of Rome led them (immorally) to conquer the other White people of Europe, who tried to stop them but failed.

    Huh? Alaric sacked Rome in 410. The Romans never got past the Highlands in Scotland (Hadrian’s Wall). And they had no success whatsoever north of Gaul (France).

    Charlemagne was Germanic, not Roman, and no man in the history of Europe “converted” more pagans. And if not for Northern Europeans, Rome would have been conquered by the Muslims long before the end of the first millennium. Of course, the elitist, ostentatious lifestyle of the “Roman” clergy and their ornate churches were eventually rejected by most Europeans- as expressed in the Reformation.

    Rick, you’d be surprised at how much ancestry you have in you from other ethnic groups.

    At some point in the ancient past, true. However, I am white and am steeped in a history of Anglo-Saxon culture.

    There is only one race: The human race.

    Are you blind? “Race” is essentially an aggregate of physical characteristics associated with people indigenous to various regions of the globe. And their are genetic differences among the races. Race is not a “social construct.”

    Do you believe in “racism” Mr. Moseley? How can there be “racism” if there are no races? LOL

  9. Racism is a philosophy based upon the social construct of race. It’s basis in reality is non-existent that is part of what makes it so objectionable.

  10. Of course genetic differences exist. They exist between everyone but identical siblings. Look at organ donation. What is fascinating is that an organ from someone of a different race can be a better match than one’s siblings or children. It goes back to Jon’s argument that the differences within the group are often greater than differences between the groups.

  11. I understand where you are coming from Miggy, but there is a big difference between the White Identity movement and white supremacy. Merely identifying as a group and taking pride in its legitimate accomplishments while being repelled by attacks on it does not equate to believing others are inferior.

    I am not agreeing with that point of view. I reject the group think mentality. I am just saying that the difference is real and can be life and death. One can be reasoned with to see the light. The other has to be defeated.

    In the Charleston shooter’s world blacks are stupid and violent lower beings on a par with dogs. That is so far out that even reasoning is difficult. That is not said here.

    It is reasonable to point out that extreme group identity leads to that type of extremism.

    Thank you for commenting.

  12. It does not strike me as being any different at all. I have never heard of a white identity group that did not also claim that whites were superior to other races.

    This sounds like white supremacy to me:

    “Segregation was not a bad thing. It was a defensive measure. Segregation did not exist to hold back negroes. It existed to protect us from them. And I mean that in multiple ways. Not only did it protect us from having to interact with them, and from being physically harmed by them, but it protected us from being brought down to their level. Integration has done nothing but bring Whites down to level of brute animals.”

    This sounds no different from what several of your commenters have said on many occasions.

  13. To be clear, your commenters always couch their criticisms as being about “white culture,” as opposed to the actual white race. But the message is the same: Whites invented democracy, and other races don’t know how to adhere to it. Anti-immigrant feeling is frequently put in those terms by several of your commenters.

  14. Rick writes: “The Romans never got past the Highlands in Scotland (Hadrian’s Wall). ”

    Last time I checked, the Scottish Highlands are on the other side of Europe from Italy. You can hardly go farther across Europe than from Rome to the Scottish Highlands. Only Ireland is a little bit farther, and beyond that the Atlantic Ocean.

    So the Rome conquered all of Europe. The White culture of the Romans beat the pants off of the OTHER, DIFFERENT White cultures of the other White people in Europe.

    And when the Romans abandoned their own Roman culture, they started losing, and the Roman Empire crumbled.

    THE ROMANS WERE STILL WHITE, when their empire started to crumble.

    The Romans were not successful because they were White. The Romans were successful because they had a UNIQUE culture — set of behaviors, disciplines, education, training, ideals, values — that was more successful than all the other White people in Europe.

    ========================================

    “Charlemagne was Germanic, not Roman, and no man in the history of Europe “converted” more pagans. ”

    Yeah, and they were all White….

    … but all very different.

    The White Vikings sacked the White people of Paris.

    The White culture of the Vikings was, although thoroughly evil, superior in discipline, training, effectiveness, and bravery.

    The White culture of the White French was built on, and still is, cowardice, foolishness, frivolity, lack of discipline, and lack of focus.

    So the White culture of the White Vikings beat the pants off the White culture of the White French.

    Color has nothing to do with it.

    ======================================

    Rick says: “It [use of chopsticks by Orientals] was a simple example of “cultural tendencies” (which tend to create cultural stereotypes); but, perhaps it is genetic, since DNA varies among the races.”

    Which highlights the fact that “culture” is BEHAVIORAL… and it is learned, not genetic.

    The Black culture in America created by liberal grievances, race-baiting, divisiveness, blaming other people, and dependency on government hand-outs is an inferior — dysfunctional — set of BEHAVIORS, values, ideals, and principles — than the culture of the founders who founded the USA.

    There is a body of behaviors, values, principles, ideals, disciplines and the like that is superior to all others. And that is the culture which — through humanity’s trials and errors over millennia — culminated in the founding of the USA.

    And that culture is now being lost. Those who hate Christianity and America’s traditions and want to change what America is are destroying America’s culture.

    But it has ZERO to do with race or color of people’s skin or their ancestry or their genetic background.

    The only role that race plays in all of this is that those who want to destroy America have SUCCEEDED in poisoning the well among many Blacks and other minorities.

    But pouring more POISON into the well is not the answer.

    The fact that the Left has tried to divide and poison the country along racial lines does not mean that more racism is the solution.

    You are simply throwing gasoline on a house fire as a way to put the fire out.

    Watch the “Hunger Games.” At the end of the “Hunger Games: Catching Fire” the key moment is “REMEMBER WHO THE REAL ENEMY IS.”

  15. “There is a body of behaviors, values, principles, ideals, disciplines and the like that is superior to all others. And that is the culture which — through humanity’s trials and errors over millennia — culminated in the founding of the USA.”

    This is putting multi-cultural face paint on the same philosophy the shooter espoused. In your view, Asian, African and Native American cultures are “inferior” because they did not produce material wealth equal to European societies.

    The world is being debased by your “superior” culture. Your claim to superiority is an opinion, not a fact.

  16. Jon said:
    “Watch the “Hunger Games.” At the end of the “Hunger Games: Catching Fire” the key moment is “REMEMBER WHO THE REAL ENEMY IS.”

    The real enemies are the race-baiters on both sides or maybe on multiple sides. This isn’t only about black and white, it is about the eventual hybridization of humanity in general, which is what the world will become in a thousand years or so.
    Now, America considers it a black/white issue, but the truth is, it is much deeper than that.
    We know who many of the black race-baiters are, however it is much more subtle and difficult to discern exactly who the white race-baiters are?
    This uneducated kid, Dylann Root didn’t come up with this racist crap on his own and perhaps the FBI will ascertain exactly who brainwashed this kid. He attended school only through the 9th grade according to the news sources.
    The real enemy comes from within, when we give any credence to these people who point out the color of every wrongdoing to the excess. Are some of the news sources race-baiters, you bet they are. Whether these people are aware of it or not, they are the real problem.

  17. SOS June 20, 2015 at 21:40 “This is putting multi-cultural face paint on the same philosophy the shooter espoused.”

    No, it is not. And this shows the total brain damage of the Left.

    There are behaviors that lead to success and behaviors that lead to failure.

    They have nothing to do with race.

    This is what education used to be about… learning not only facts but behaviors for learning and work.

    Some values lead to better results than other values.

    Some habits lead to better results than other habits.

    Some behaviors lead to better results than other behaviors.

    That’s just reality. But liberals are at war with reality.

    The idea that all cultures — having nothing whatsoever to do with race or ethnicity — are equal is laughably absurd.

    =================================
    SOS June 20, 2015 at 21:40 “In your view, Asian, African and Native American cultures are “inferior” because they did not produce material wealth equal to European societies.”

    Some cultures are superior and other cultures are inferior.

    And the difference is measured in RESULTS in real life.

    This is where liberals are brain damaged on homosexual marriage and the like.

    An intact marriage of 1 man and 1 woman is superior for society, for children, and for the couple, because it WORKS better, as proven over thousands of years of real life.

    However, the superior culture that founded the USA is superior …..

    …. to other inferior WHITE cultures.

    You obviously have not been paying attention.

    The vast majority of White Europeans lived in the vast majority of human history by INFERIOR culture, meaning behaviors, beliefs, disciplines, values, ideals, education, etc.

    Furthermore, the founders of the USA drew their culture from WORLD-WIDE history.

    They designed the US Constitution after surveying the entire history of the entire world…. not just Europe.

    The generations of American colonists were educated as to the entire world, not just Europe.

    Liberals don’t know that, because liberals don’t know much of anything.

    This confusion comes exclusively from the lack of education of liberals. Because liberals are uneducated about human history and American history they do not have the tools necessary to cope with any f this.

    Let’s be clear:

    WHITE liberal culture is the WORST culture on planet Earth.

    The culture of White liberals in the USA is the most poisonous, toxic, destructive culture that has ever existed in terms of wrecking human misery upon the greatest number of people.

    Now, there have been violent WHTE European warlords and other militants who just murder a lot of people. But that’s just a murderous leader.

    In terms of a system causing destruction, only the culture of White liberals in the U.S.A. qualifies for that.

  18. Racism is a philosophy based upon the social construct of race. It’s basis in reality is non-existent that is part of what makes it so objectionable.

    But race is not a social construct. It is physical reality. The Oriental, the Negro and the Caucasian have unique physical characteristics, and it goes beyond mere skin color.

    This is not to say that race matters; we are all human. But to say that a black man and a white man don’t differ physically is patently absurd, and no amount of politically-correct pseudo-science can change that.

  19. Rick June 21, 2015 at 08:19 “But race is not a social construct. It is physical reality. The Oriental, the Negro and the Caucasian have unique physical characteristics, and it goes beyond mere skin color.”

    But the meanings you assign to race are a social construct, and if behavior is concentrated in different groups, that is a social construct.

    An Oriental who grows up in Silicon Valley will behave, think, and live very, very differently from an Oriental who is born in a rural valley on the border of China who has no electricity.

    They could be third cousins. But they will think and behave as if they are from two alien worlds.

  20. Rick June 21, 2015 at 08:19 “But race is not a social construct. It is physical reality. The Oriental, the Negro and the Caucasian have unique physical characteristics, and it goes beyond mere skin color.”

    But the meanings you assign to race are a social construct, and if behavior is concentrated in different groups, that is a social construct.

    An Oriental who grows up in Silicon Valley will behave, think, and live very, very differently from an Oriental who is born in a rural valley on the border of China who has no electricity.

    They could be third cousins. But they will think and behave as if they are from two alien worls.

  21. Jonathan is right again, the culture matters. It is the priorities and values of a society. None is perfect, but through trial and error, the west has found a unique combination that overall has been of great value to the world. There is nothing wrong with saying it.

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