Is It Time ?
Mar 12th, 2010 by Frank Knotts
I cannot believe the times that we are living in. I almost understand how a certain segment of the nation felt right before the southern states seceded from the union. I can imagine that they felt as if the federal government was not responsive to their views. They must have felt as if the federal government was over reaching and intrusive . They must have felt as if the federal government was usurping their states rights.
Let me say right now and without any doubt, I am not in any way calling for armed insurrection. But I do believe that it has come time for the people of this nation, those who still believe that we are ,”endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”, to rise up and let it be known in no uncertain terms that we are no longer going to stand quietly by and allow those who are in office at the pleasure of the people, to continue to act as if they have sovereign authority .
How can we as hard-working citizens, citizens who have paid our taxes on time, citizens who have worked to raise our families and buy the things we need and want. How can we be expected to stand by and allow the government that should be there to prevent us from being robbed, to rob us?
As we watch the health care debate, and the word debate is a joke in this process, as we watch the Democrat controlled congress extirpate the Constitution , we must ask ourselves, how long? How long will we allow this to continue? How far will we allow these people who have demonstrated that they have no respect for the Constitution, that they have no concern for the will of the American citizens, how far will we allow them to steer the nation down the road towards fascism, towards tyranny, and towards the complete destruction of everything that this nation was founded upon ?
As I watch the daily news , I find myself becoming angry. At first I was angry because everything I was hearing was telling me that the government wanted to steal my money and give it to other people who had not worked for it and who most likely hadn’t worked for anything. But the longer I watch and the more I hear , the more I realize that the government wants to steal something more precious to me then money or life itself. These bastards want to steal the future that I had hoped to leave to my daughter.
I am not just talking about any material value that I might be able to leave behind, though they certainly are trying to steal that right before my eyes. I am talking about the future of freedom, the same sort of freedom that I knew while growing up. The freedom to decide how she would live, how she would earn her living, how she would raise and educate her children. But these leaches that are currently in office are attempting to steal even that from myself and her.
Look around you people. We see the federal government with its fingers in every aspect of our lives. They regulate the cars you drive , the houses you live in, the food you eat. Now some people will tell you that these are for your own good, maybe so. The trouble is that once we turned over control for those areas of our lives, we gave the government the path to total control. The health care bill that the Democrats are currently shoving down our throats could be the final piece of the fascist puzzle.
We are hearing more and more stories about how the expansive government is failing. School districts closing schools because they can no longer sustain the amount of spending that they have cornered themselves into. States on the verge of insolvency, to the point that some of these states are contemplating withholding tax returns. Do you understand what that means? That means that those states over taxed their citizens, and still they are in deficit, and now are not going to return the money .
People , that is out right theft. That money belongs to the citizens. If the states can delay repaying it, what is to stop them from deciding to not give it back at all ?
So with all that is currently going on in our federal, state and even local governments, I ask the question, is it time? Is it time to truly march on our capitals? Our state capitals and yes most certainly on Washington D.C. .
Now I’m not talking about TEA Party marches or 9/12 marches. I’m not talking about anymore organization then to pass the word of mouth. To gather your groups of two, or ten, or a hundred. But to pass the word by mouth or by the Internet, or by talk radio. It is time to just show up in these capitals and on the steps of the Capital Building. No permit required. Don’t ask permission of those who you are there to protest. Just pick a date and go.
We are citizens of these states and this nation and for now we are free to travel were we will. We have a guaranteed right to have our grievances heard and if they won’t listen to our phone calls and our letters and e-mails, then by God let them hear us as we stand before their monuments of power.
Frank, sincerely sorry you are so troubled. If it makes you feel any better, most do not feel any of that Government intrusion that is crushing you. We rejoice living in this wonderful place.
I do not know if you are Christian, but urge you find comfort in the Bible. Your writing centers around money and self. Christian faith teaches values transcendent of material self, possessions, taxes, money. You might want to consult a preacher about your material concerns.
Take some comfort knowing the Nation is turning towards true Christian values, exemplified by efforts to make sure the poor family as well as the wealthy have medical care. Is it not Godly to offer help to the suffering? This is not fascist. It is deeply Christian. The Bible is testament to God’s devotion to the poor. Here on Earth God’s work can truly be our own.
In case you did not notice, the poor have long had medical care in America with county hospitals, Catholic hospitals, Protestant, and Jewish hospitals. We have medicaid and S-Chips for the families of the working class. The poor are not the issue. They will not be cared for one bit better than today. In fact, they may be worse off under the bill proposed. Money will be diverted from the poor to give tax credits to the middle class. The elderly will certainly be worse off. Medicare will have huge cuts. Medicare could well be ruined by this plan. If the senate bill goes through as the ruling regime wants, the unborn would be far worse off. The handicap could also suffer with money not being available for research. Money is already drying up in anticipation.
What the bill does do is expand government power over every aspect of life. That is why we call it fascist.
It is our Christian values of liberty, submission to GOD, care for the poor, handicap unborn and elderly that demand we speak up in opposition.
Thank you father for replying.
Father Ralph, I don’t know you, nor do I know if your moniker is a reflection of your calling or just a name you have chosen. I also realize that I may not have a perfect understanding of what your comments are meant to convey. While I appreciate some of the comments others hit on a pet peeve of mine. My comments that follow may be harsh. They are made in response to what I understood to be the message of your post which I realize may differ from what you intended to present.
God will never enslave his children, but governments, institutions, and power hungry individuals will. To use the Bible or Christianity to lull people into a state where governments can assume controll over their lives is a subtle but vile perversion. It can be hard for people to feel the intrusion of government in their lives when schools, society, and even their churches are busy blinding them and numbing them to the pain of its grasp.
The word indicates that ‘even as YOU have done it unto one of the least of these my bretheren YE have done it unto Me.’ (emphasis mine) It says nothing about our government doing it for us. In fact when you look at Christ’s admonision to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and render unto God that which is God’s it leads me to believe that if I am rendering my good works and charity to the government to do with as they will than I have given them to the wrong person. For all intents and purposes I would have robbed God.
We all have taxes to pay. They just won’t go away, only increase or decrease, but if you have charity than give it to the correct source. It is said that ‘charity never faileth’, but if it ever did the government would be at the crux of it.
Also to the original article, I agree. I would also submit that the first Tea Parties and 9-12 Marches were, and indeed several of the local ones around the nation still are conducted basically the way you describe Frank.
Father Ralph, I will not defend my faith to anyone. But let me say that you need to read my article again and note that what has truly upset me is the loss of Liberty, not only for myself, but for my child and all of the nation’s citizens.
Yes my article addresses material things , because that is how our government is attempting to rob us of freedom in this life. As for the next life , well no man can rob us of that.
You ask, “Is it not Godly to offer help to the suffering?” I would answer yes, but I need not the government to make those offerings for me. I will not sit here and list the things I do or have done to help those less fortunate than myself, I will only say that it was done of my own free will. To allow the government to steal my money and then hand it out as they see fit does not make me a giving person. I would also point you to the fact that as the amount of taxes goes up , the amount of charitable giving by individuals goes down. Charities are the first to suffer in a punitive tax system.
You also state that,”Here on Earth God’s work can truly be our own.” Again I agree with you , but to be our own it must truly be our own. Which means that we must give freely of ourselves or it means nothing.
The government is a small component of the larger problem; the cultural schism. It’s somewhat like the situation in 1860; slavery was a political issue in a much larger cultural rift. The north was about money combining with more money to expand manufacturing and forge development westward. The south was a temperate, generally agrarian society, where people’s most precious asset was time, even if the time was to be spent sitting on a porch while the Yankee spent a 12-hour day in a sweatshop. The cultural differences were dramatic and politically irreconcilable. Hence, once social critical mass had been reached, the seccession, and the war that settled the issue by force.
Histroically, cultural schisms are unlikely to be settled politically.
People seem to be more inclined these days to take notice of how many “little” things have come to pass like bailouts, stimulus money, government owned businesses, foreclosure signs, having 400 people turn up for 10 open positions and on and on…It’s all the subtleties that add up to an “Ah HAH!” moment and we see that slowly but surely our Country is drowning out the principles upon which we were founded. Quietly I read – taking in as much information as possible – wondering how I’m going to keep my family fed, gas in the car, the DPL fat cats paid every month and not losing hope. I haven’t supported a candidate in ages – because I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t believe they have any interest in what the average or poor person is doing – their self-interest is all they seem to give a crap about. I work everyday with people who have little or no hope of finding a job, a place to live, medical care that will help them stay alive and on the proper medications. Instead we talk about “going green”, “taxing sodas”, “shovel ready projects” and the war on terror is a bad word. Where are the inventors, the innovators, the entrepreneurs – why aren’t we touting them as the future of American jobs? I call Comcast and I talk to someone in freakin’ INDIA.
Is it TIME? It was TIME long before TODAY , but we were so wrapped up in our vacations, our beach houses, our Hummers and plastic surgery that we forgot the struggles of the Founders, the beauty of writing a letter to a loved one, the extended family that lived in our neighborhoods until corporate America said we have to take a two year transfer to Cold Creek, Alabama to keep our job, that being a church-goer was a GOOD thing, remembering the cost of lives, division and liberty in the Civil War. I pray every day for good leaders to be inspired to speak up for the greater good of this Nation. Perhaps we will awake from the coma of apathy and find the fortitude and integrity to make a stand.
Hey Frank… why don’t you take the time to write up a list of your grievances in a little more detail. Right now you are just mumbling incoherently and shaking your fist at the sky. It is time to turn your emotional argument into a concrete one.
What legislation do you want passed or not passed, and how will that make things better?
Which people do you want running for which offices – name them.
What are your Constitutional complaints – specifically – and who are you trying to persuade to take them to the Supreme Court?
And ultimately you will have to deal with the reality that you personally are one of those people who is consuming more services and receiving more benefits than you pay in taxes.
Annie ask,”Where are the inventors, the innovators, the entrepreneurs – why aren’t we touting them as the future of American jobs?” Annie as we allow all of our decisions to be made for us by other people, we lose the ability to think for ourselves, thus we also lose the ability to think outside the box. The kind of thinking it takes to be an inventor or innovator. As we allow the centralization of our education system through standarsized testing we are actually teaching our children to all think alike. If they all think alike then most likely they will all come up with the same answers to any problem.
This is the danger we face for allowing “INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY” to be eroded. It is the freedom of choice and the God given right to be wrong that has spawned the most inventive among us. It is the ability to take a risk, to risk failure that has allowed men and women such as Edison and Bell to invent things that were thought impossible in their times.
As government attempts to take all risk from our lives , what it actually does is robs us of the ability to dream. If there is no challenges in our lives then we have no need to invent things to ease our way. If all services are to be provided by government, then there is no need for private entrepeneurs to take the risk of starting a new business, they are actually discouraged from it.
Finally , I agree that all too often we are distracted by the simple pleasures of our lives, the Super Bowl , American Idol,our day to day lives. It is often all that we can do, just to make a living, let alone having time to go to political meetings or to march on the capital of your state. But we are the proverbial frog in the pot and the water has begun to boil.
Anon, this is not the first post that Frank has written. View it in the context of his call for localism and the inversion of taxes and spending back to the local and state governments. View it in the context of his call to return to constitutionalism. Go to his name and click on it. Catch up on his previous articles.
I know that in the last two weeks we have hundreds of new readers so I do not expect everyone to understand the context of the writers. Please feel free to catch up. You have to read this blog for 6 weeks to fully appreciate it. That is why we have so many repeat readers.
Thank you all.
Hey, guys watch that bashing of the Super Bowl and American Idol. I resemble that remark.
Annie, your comment really rang a bell with me. You regret the loss of American inventiveness, voice extreme worry, frustration, desperation, suggest there’s a need for radical change.
Please know, America has never had more inventors, American has never been more at the vanguard of new invention. In 20 short years the entire world has been transformed by America’s modern day inventors. We are the Microsoft Windows, The Apple, The Google, The GPS. And on and on and on. American inventors write the software, design the hardware the world runs on. American brands from Levi to MacDonalds are the world’s favorities. The creativity of our arts means American TV Music Movies are the heart and soul of global entertainment.
So do not mourn for American invention it’s more vibrant than ever before. And here we get to the subject of government. Please know without big Government there would be very little invention.
That’s why the Founders in Article 1 Section 8 directs Congress “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries”
Section 8 also empowers The Government (Congress) “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
Frank considers the Founders to be “thieves” stealing “his money”. But it really is a simple proposition: This Country was founded on the principle of taxation for the common defense and the general welfare. What we are arguing today is to what extent should we do that? $700 billion for defense. Is medical services for all citizens “general welfare.
You say we need a revolution. Remember, there are those of us who feel like we just had a revolution. All those outrages you list. The bank bail outs, government owned businesses, foreclosures, the squeeze on working families – that is why we elected a whole new Government in the last three years. A new Congress in 2006. A new unknown young President. When we won in 2008 I rejoiced. I felt revolution was still alive. Peaceful. Not radical. I did not expect Obama to do wonders in a day. But it was my revolution. I am your fellow citizen. Be optimist. The revolution is here.
Frank, you are correct, Southern states felt Government was not responsive hence the Civil War. Their idea of freedom was one man could own another. We had to kick their crazy asses, take that “freedom” away. It’s called social justice. No slaves. No wife beating. No poison in the river. A million rules for 300 million people. No, you can’t cancer cures without testing. No, you can’t fly airplanes without license. No, can’t do surgery without a license. No, you can’t drive a car without brakes. No. No. No. Get used to it. It’s the way liberty and justice work together.
Most families want the government to regulate how houses are built. Big Government wonders keeping families safe.
Roofs don’t blow off easy anymore. No more lead poison in the pipes and paint. Got rid of poison in treated lumber products. Bacteria in water. Big Government made sure there’s tempered glass in sliding glass doors so a child who runs through one is not decapitated. Big Government had to set fire codes do our little one’s were not wearing flammable pajamas. It’s all good Frank. The first step on the road to freedom is safety. We all know that. You sound like you want to be on the highway with cars without brakes just to test the limits of life without Government. Not me. I think our Government is the best thing that ever happened to the United States.
What you want is not here in Delaware. Not in any suburban urban area in anywhere. Maybe in the far reaches of Alaska, unsettled parts of Wyoming. You’re absolutely free to choose a lifestyle outside the modern world. Freedom is there for you Frank. All you have to do is go for it. Just grant to rest of us that same right to pursue freedom. I feel like I have it right here right now.
The Reverend Jim Jones was as disgusted with America as you are. For different reasons perhaps, but Reverend Jones acted on his principles. He went to live somewhere he felt comfortable. Jonestown. Away from the repression he imagined.
T123, the taxes the founders had in place were basically sales taxes on things you bought and sold, you had a choice to buy or not. The income tax came later and is theft.
Don, if you really believe that the civil war was fought over slavery you need to read a book titled “When In the Course of Human Events” the name of the author escapes me now, I will try to find it and post it. The civil war was fought over economics of the times, slavery was a part of that. You can’t argue those times in the context of today, it won’t work. I was comparing the emotions that led the south to secede.
As for the argument of cars with no breaks, well lets say a car passes inspection today. The owner pays for a two year tag. Six months from now his breaks begin to give him trouble, but he doesn’t see the need to have them fixed. For 18 months he is driving around with bad breaks. So how much protection do we get for the revenue that the inspection generates for the state?
For Don and anyone interested, “When In the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession ” written by Charles Adams. Let us not forget that the victor gets to write the history books. This book may fly in the face of what you learned in grade school.
Frank, I know what you were explaining – the South had the right idea, fed up with Government that the Founders set up, the Southern slave States losing in the courts, in Congress, wanted to start their own Government different from the Constitution. A new Confederate Government where States ruled supreme. And that’s about where you’re at now.
Read Article I Section 8. Does it say anything about just sales taxes? No. Does it prohibit income tax? No. It pretty much gives the green like for any tax you can dream up – “collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises”. The Founders said Congress can borrow to pay for stuff. Don’t gripe to me. I’m justing telling you what the Founders put in the Constitution Article I Section 8. The money was to be used for “common defense” “general welfare”.
Lincoln signed in the very first income tax to pay for the Civil War.
Patriots then and now understand taxation is not theft. People sacrifice their lives for the country. You’re crying about having to pay taxes?
Government is why you are able to earn an income. Government is why we have a middle class in America. You think it just sprouted up out of nowhere? We built this prosperity with the sweat of our brow and our tax dollars.
No free lunch. No freeloaders. You use the stuff you pay the taxes and don’t whine about having to kick into the pot.
You must be the type of person who liked bums jumping off the curb when you stopped at a city light and squeegee your window and demand money for smearing your window worse than it ever was. Naturally, if you thought the window needed to be cleaned, you would have just pushed a button.
Instead of being shaken down for a few dollars, the government is forcably taking hundreds of thousands over a lifetime. What part of we don’t want the services and would rather keep our own money is hard to understand?
The real deal about the taxation is that the federal government was never given authority to directly tax the people until the fraud called the 16th amendment was claimed to have been ratified. As for the general welfare clause in case people had that misunderstanding, the founders were forced to add the 9th and 10th amendments to clarify their intent which was that the federal government only had implied powers to carry out the expressed ones and not a blank check. The power was reserved to the people and the states unless it was expressly given to the federal government. http://www.givemeliberty.org/features/taxes/notratified.htm
What part of being an American citizen don’t you understand? What services don’t you want?
How come we don’t amend the Constitution to repeal income tax? Because the vast majority of Americans understand the income tax has been very good for America. How else would you do it? Let everybody decide what services they want to pay for? What wars they want to pay for?
Don’t be so down on the United States. Know any place cheaper with more freedom? This is a party. You make it sound like your being mugged.
I would get rid of most government entitlements foreign, corporate welfare and the dole that did not exist before 1940. Eliminate the income tax and institute a FAIR tax. Bye bye great society.
We had to kick their crazy asses..…Don
‘We?’ Man, you’re pretty old, Don.
Their idea of freedom was one man could own another. We had to kick their crazy asses, take that “freedom” away. It’s called social justice. No slaves.…Don
You need to read a little history. Lincoln never proposed the abolishment of slavery before the war; just its containment. Hence, you can drop the ‘free the slaves’ bulls#!t.
Where in the Constitution- even today- is seccession prohibited?
T123, if you are such a believer in giving your money over to the government to do with as they will, since they, in your opinion are a much better arbiter of how to spend your money. Tell me now that we are in the tax season, are you sitting down and going over your taxes and taking every deduction you can, are you checking your math twice to make sure you are not paying more than you are required by law to pay. Or are you sending the government extra money,are you ignoring possible deductions so that the government will have more money to work with to do all of those great things that you are so in favor of?
Maybe you sit down every month and determine that you have a couple of hundred extra dollars to send the government and mail it off with good wishes and thanks for all of the services that they provide at twice and three time the cost that the private sector could provide the same services for. Or maybe you are one of those people who doesn’t contribute but only leaches off of others, one who thinks that the world owes you something.
Now, not to turn this into a history lesson, Rick is correct, the Constitution does not prohibit secession. Also you should research Lincoln’s “some, all or none ” statement as it relates to slavery.
But again I am not talking about slavery, I am talking about a citizenry that has reached a breaking point. I am talking about a government that has over grown its original intent.
Now as for the income tax, the founders original intent was not for an income tax. In Article I, sec.9, sub sec.4 under powers prohibited to Congress the Constitution clearly states that, “No capitation ,or other direct tax shall be laid , unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken”. Now in 1894 Congress passed an income tax, but the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So on July 12,1903 Congress proposed the 16th Amendment and it was ratified on Feb.3,1913, this amendment authorized Congress to levy such a tax. Let it come as no surprise that this was during the Progressive era, it was also during the time that the nation was moving towards a war to fight the Kaiser.
Rick, I think Lincoln and the Civil War freed the slaves.
Please feel free to secede. I suppose there is not much in the Constitution that forces a person to be loyal to the United States of America.
Plenty of Americans hate The United States, would like to leave the Union, live in a different kind of world. Look what Jim Jones did. And these new American jihadists. Nothing the Constitution says can stop people from being that disgusted with the USA. The Constitution addresses treason but not secession as far as I know.
Real Deal, I understand the frustration with taxes and waste all that. Believe me I wish I could keep all my money too. I was around for the Great Society. We really needed those Civil Rights laws.
Back them blacks were still not allowed in public restaurants, not hired for good jobs, not promoted in the military, not even quarterback in football. It really was a white man world. Color discrimination was extreme and rampant. The Great Society forced the change to our modern world. Back then I was against it. Just because I was anti-the government telling me anything. Now I get it.
The big things the Great Society did Civil Rights and Medicare. Millions of American elders had no money for medical care just when they needed medical care the most. It was a sad sad situation. Especially in the middle of the Cold War, we bragged how great Capitalism was compared to Communism, whole world watching wondering why if Capitalism’s so great why are some many elders in America suffering dying because they can’t afford medical care?
We may have been taught by the GOP that the Great Society was bad for America. But it was actually very good. The proof is not even the most conservative politician proposes we get rid of the Civil Rights laws or health insurance for the elderly. You are not saying that really are you? I doubt it.
Frank, let me start and say I am sincerely sorry you are at a breaking point. I do not know you personal situation, but if it is grave I wish you only the best.
Regarding me paying taxes, I scrounge for every dime I can save.
Where you and I disagree is I am basically content. Worried. Not rich. Older. But basically love what this country is. Love the life I live here. I don’t think the Government has overgrown it’s original intent. I think it has grown better with every generation. The USA is a very cool place. I love it. Love our creative commerce. Love our compassionate government. Love being able to vote the bums out. That is what I did in 2008. I won my little revolution. Not bragging, just saying. Don’t forget those of us who have the same passion you do about stuff – we fought we argued we organized we won. We elected this new President.
I have plenty of gripes, but not the dark totalitarian fears and resentments you express. Remember, all politics is personal local. You may be at the breaking point, for that I am sorry. But the “citizenry” is more like me I think. Just rolling along, go with flow. We love the USA.
T123, as for the Civil rights movement, that is exactly the kind of frustration that I am speaking of and exactly the kind of civil disobedience that I am proposing now. The black community had taken all that they could stand of being treated as second class citizens. They chose to demonstrate their frustration through demonstrations and marches. They were in the right and they won. As for your view of the Great Society and its benefits to the nation, well naturally we will disgree.
Now please do not ever mistake my frustration with the current state of affairs in Washington and local governments for a hatred of my country. We are the freest nation in the world, that freedom is directly tied to our freedom of choice. It is that freedom of choice that I believe that this President and current Congress are attempting to steal from us through over regulation and their health care bill. You choose to give over your freedom of choice for what you percieve as security, I choose to seek my own sourse of security and maintain my freedom of choice. As you state that you worked hard and won in 2008, I and others are working hard to defeat you in 2010 and again in 2012. As for your bragging that most of the nation feels as you do about government’s intrusion into their lives, well many may have in 2008, but according to most polling , even that of the Democrat party, that is no longer the case, hence the hard push by Congress to pass this aberration they call health care reform through before they are shown the door.
Frank, do you really think you are the only man who wants to set his own course, live his own life? We all do. That is why I am fighting for measures to permit all persons to purchase health insurance without being shackled to an employer.
I didn’t give over my freedom of choice for security. Where do you get that stuff? I have all the freedom I want, except maybe smoking in a MacDonald’s. That’s what I love about the USA. More Americans have more freedom, more opportunity, more justice, more prosperity than ever before.
America has never been more free for all. Women, minorities, disabled, everybody! It’s only been fifty years now since Civil Rights. Less than 3 generations. Freedom is on the move.
That did not just happen Frank. We fought for it. Died for it. Marched for it. Got beat and spit on fighting for Freedom. Civil Rights. Defeated the Nazis. Defeated the Communists. Fight Poverty. Fight Economic Injustice. Fight Slavery. We are a nation of Freedom Fighters. That’s why we are still free, more free, working to achieve Liberty and Justice for all under God. Don’t be afraid to be progressive, it’s where the freedom is.
We Americans are the liberators. I have a friend stuck in a wheelchair. The Government extended his personal freedom with the Disabilities Act. Now he roams in and out of shops up and down all the ramps we put up. Only a Godly Nation would look after ways to help the crippled enjoy freedom.
T123, if you call mandating that I or anyone pay for health care that we may not want or need, freedom , then you my friend are a lost cause. Mandating that people not be discriminated against because of race or religion or even physical disability is a far cry from telling every (WORKING) citizen that they must buy into and pay for the (NON-WORKING) citizens health care. If you allow this, what is to stop them from telling you that you must buy car insurance just in case you ever buy a car ? If you are intellectually honest you will admit the only reason they must force people like myself into this system is to pay for those who don’t pay into the system. If that is your idea of freedom, you can keep it.
Frank, what system are you in? You must be in a system?
Everybody has a right to medical care when there’re sick. It is a Civil Right. It’s American. It’s Christian. It’s morally right. It is totally in keeping with our Godly traditions. We are arguing about how make sure that is the way it is in the United States.
I prefer “we” as opposed to “they”. We make the laws. We would not force people to have car insurance if they don’t have a car. That makes no sense. We force people not to drive drunk. That does not mean we say nobody can drive. We say you can’t employ children as labor. What’s to stop us from saying you can’t employ adults? Common Sense. We are good at Common Sense in the USA. You are worried about fanatics. There are not many fanatics in America. The body politic is sensible. Everybody gets it. Freedom. Justice. Prosperity. Free Markets. Use Big Government to expand Freedom not curtail it. Everybody wants all the Freedom there is to be had. It’s just Freedom is complicated. In the eye of the beholder sometimes. The slave owner thought he lost his freedom after the War. The slaves thought they gained theirs. Don’t be a fanatic on this stuff. We are all in this together.
Don wrote: “We Americans are the liberators. I have a friend stuck in a wheelchair. The Government extended his personal freedom with the Disabilities Act. Now he roams in and out of shops up and down all the ramps we put up. Only a Godly Nation would look after ways to help the crippled enjoy freedom.”
The government (I’m not sure why you felt the need to capitalize that term) did not extend your friend’s personal freedom. The shopowners who built the ramps did. Leave government out of the picture, and the market–the desire not to lose the business of handicapped citizens–would have effected the same result.
By the way, what’s with all the progressives (those users using screennames and pseudonyms, mostly) injecting Christianity and godliness into their comments? Is this a new strategy to appeal to the “right-wing Bible-thumping evangelical conservatives” who write for and read DelawarePolitics? If so, you ought to save yourselves some time and drop it. Most people are willing to debate politics with those whom they disagree with, but the quickest way to lose their respect and attention is to insinuate that they are not measuring up to their faith, Christianity in this case, simply because their opinion is different than yours.
Rick, I think Lincoln and the Civil War freed the slaves.
Obviously. But, you implied that Lincoln went to war to free the slaves. That is historical revisionism…he never mentioned abolishing slavery where it already existed in the south.
Had there been no seccession, there would have been no invasion ‘to free the slaves.’
No, I’m certainly not defending slavery; I am from a rural Massachusetts family, and my ancestors fought for the union.
I think it is hard to deny that the disabilities law did push us to better care for our fellow citizens. I concede it. I do have a problem with the unfunded mandate. It could have been done better.
I agree with Chris that it is curious that some people who would never discuss faith try to break it out and use it in a self righteous way. I am talking about the ones who say if you were really a Christian not the tone “Father Ralph” took which seemed genuine. It didn’t attack.
Chris, I rely on free markets to get me a good deal on a car or TV, but not so much for curing social ills. The Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 was more than wheelchair ramps, it was more like an extension of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include disabled citizens. Upon signing ADA President Bush stated “Let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down.” Market forces (unless you’re referring to the voters) are not geared towards resolving issues of social justice. Which gets us back to Christianity.
Too many people seem to worship free market Capitalism as the new God, the ruling religion of the United States. I believe this adoration of Money is the rankest form of Idolatry. So, we speak anew of our Christian roots at this time of trouble, because, as always, that is where our national salvation lies.
What is more important? Capitalist Ideology or Christian Values? Are they mutually exclusive? Does idolatry of Free Markets come at the exclusion of God?
David, not sure who you mean “people who would never discuss faith” now bring it up. I’ve always been a big believer in Divine Providence. The first inaugural words that really touched me were JFK, “the rights of man come not from the generosity of the State, but from the hand of God.”. Always felt public policy regarding freedom and justice must adhere to Christian principles.
There’s no reason why viewing pubic policy through the prism of Christian concept should bother anybody. How else do we distinguish right from wrong? We expect government to reflect the soul of the people.
I agree with you.
“There’s no reason why viewing pubic policy through the prism of Christian concept should bother anybody. How else do we distinguish right from wrong? We expect government to reflect the soul of the people.”
If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it. Thanks for joining us.
T123 says,”Everybody has a right to medical care when there’re sick. It is a Civil Right.” T123 please take my little hand and lead me to the Article and section of the Constitution that guarantees that right. You can’t , because it’s not there and if you would like it to be there then go through the process of amending the Constitution instead of pushing it down America’s collective throat with a simple majority in congress, but you won’t because it would never pass the muster, because the citizens don’t want it. Only the bleeding heart liberals want it so that they can control even more of our private lives.
C’mom Frank, we’re trying to form a more perfect Union here. Get with the program. Sure, medical care is right there in the Constitution, right next to the part where it says we go to the moon and spend most of our money being a superpower.
Is this the new Capitalist Christian American? One Nation Under The Corporation with liberty and justice if you can afford it? That’s not America. That the money changers run amuck. There may have been a time when bleeding heart was an insult, but most people who understand the nature of misery consider it a badge of honor.
And please stop with knowing what the citizens want. I’m a citizen. Obama campaigned saying he would love to have single payer not for profit universal health care. 70 million citizens jumped on the bandwagon. That’s the only citizen count that matters at the moment. Remember good sportsmanship is next to good table manners.
Don you seem to think challenging my faith is somehow relevent to the discussion, I’m not sure if you think that that is somehow an insult? As for your quip about going to the moon , no one forced me into a rocket and sent me. “Obama campaigned saying he would love to have single payer not for profit universal health care. 70 million citizens jumped on the bandwagon. That’s the only citizen count that matters at the moment.” Well Don if you take a head count today I’m not so sure you would find that seventy million in favor of what their getting for their votes.
Frank, I was responding to your bleeding heart remark. My recent references to the Christian values we share is not a challenge to your religion, more like a reminder of what Christianity is about. Christ bled for us. He was the original bleeding heart. Now bleeding heart is not a good thing? That’s what happens when Christian ideals get corrupted by material concerns.
70 million last time. Most voters ever. We will see this next election. You could be right. Until then be a good sport, we are trying to take care of business.
Okay, first let’s get this straight, is T123 and Don the same person here ? Because T123 is answering for a remark the I clearly adressed to Don .
But since liberals are interchangeable any way I’ll address my response to T1D2on3, so now you liberals think it is up to you to remind others of what Christianity is about. What’s the matter , getting bored with just running everyone’s life in this world, now you want to get started on the next? Health care isn’t enough? Now you will mandate how we interpret our faith ?
As for your statement of, “That’s what happens when Christian ideals get corrupted by material concerns.” I agree, but it is those who think like you that have blurred the lines. You believe that it is up to the government to make us Christ like by stealing our money and then handing it out as if it were given as charity. Charity comes from the heart not the pocket, for it to be charity it must be given freely. And let me say that Christ was a believer in seperation of church and state,” give un to Caesar, that which is Caesar’s”.
Frank first of all neither me or T123 are liberals. I don’t know why you keep saying that. Both of us supported every single war measure as well as the Patriot Act. We’ve always been an advocate of prayer in school. Always wanted balanced budgets. Never voted for any liberal Democrat. Always voted for conservative Republicans. Except in 2008 after the Calamity. So where you get this liberal stuff I just don’t know.
Remember just because somebody does not hate the United States government and loves Christian values does not mean they are liberal.
Don , my friend, I have to call them as I see them. You seem to be in favor of this health care reform, in my view that puts you in the liberal camp. Also you tend to use this tactic of labling me as someone who hates the United States because I disagree with the current administration , not so , it is my love of country that motivates me to point out the real danger that Pres. Obama and his health care plan pose to this nation. And while I am not ashamed of my faith, I rarely wear it on my sleave and am suspicious of those who do. It is one thing to witness your faith, it is something completely different to use it as a banner and a shield against criticism.
Frank, just saying pubic policy is guided by more than fiscal concerns. I see it all the time on the currency. In God We Trust. I am not making this stuff up. We are One Nation Under God. I think it’s important all citizens regardless of wealth get good dependable medical services. Felt the same way about freeing the slaves, and giving the elders a little pension so they don’t have to eat dog food in the final days before they meet their Maker. At least they can say they died in a good and just land. It is written you can tell much about a culture by the way they treat the elders.
I know you don’t hate America. Just the half like me who voted for Obama. I still think he is super. I am huge fan. Almost the way I felt about Reagan and JFK, but not quite. Yet. I just hope you guys don’t destroy his Presidency before he gets his feet planted. I feel strongly that every President be it Washington or Nixon is the embodiment of the People. I can’t understand how you can feel good be so disrespectful of the Office.
Don , you might want to put a little less sugar in your kool-aid !
First I don’t hate the people who voted for Pres. Obama, I do happen to believe that it was a mistake, one that I and others hope to correct at our earliest convenience.
“I can’t understand how you can feel good be so disrespectful of the Office.” I don’t know what you mean by this, but I am always respectful of the office. If you check any of my post you will see that I always refer to Pres. Obama as such, rarely as “Obama”. I have great respect for the office, more so maybe than Pres. Obama himself.