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	<title>Comments on: Holder chooses Terrorists over Patriots</title>
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	<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/</link>
	<description>Where public policy meets common sense</description>
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		<title>By: Art Downs</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18794</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Downs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18794</guid>
		<description>How many German generals who served in combat roles were tried and convicted as war criminals?  Jodl and Keitel were hanged as war criminals and their roles were that of obsequious messenger boys for illegal orders.

Admirals Doenitz and Raeder got bum raps and even had high ranking American officers as defense witnesses.  Neither men had joined the NSDAP.  Hitler loathed the Navy and reviled it as &quot;Christian&quot; (in the best sense of the word).

For the Japanese Army, quite a few got their necks stretched and they deserved it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many German generals who served in combat roles were tried and convicted as war criminals?  Jodl and Keitel were hanged as war criminals and their roles were that of obsequious messenger boys for illegal orders.</p>
<p>Admirals Doenitz and Raeder got bum raps and even had high ranking American officers as defense witnesses.  Neither men had joined the NSDAP.  Hitler loathed the Navy and reviled it as &#8220;Christian&#8221; (in the best sense of the word).</p>
<p>For the Japanese Army, quite a few got their necks stretched and they deserved it.</p>
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		<title>By: Hube</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18782</link>
		<dc:creator>Hube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18782</guid>
		<description>Perry: Should Lincoln, FDR, Truman et. al. and their associates have been prosecuted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perry: Should Lincoln, FDR, Truman et. al. and their associates have been prosecuted?</p>
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		<title>By: Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18780</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18780</guid>
		<description>Rick: &lt;I&gt;&quot;Not so. Try reading something besides the Post or NYT.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

I am going on testimony by ex FBI and CIA agents which I&#039;ve seen/read ever since we found out about the Cheney/Bush use of torture.

Cheney is the only advocate of torture that I know of, as justified by Yoo&#039;s writing of law for that purpose.  The CIA torturers were acting on orders.  He has yet to demonstrate that torture produced actionable and/or useful information not already gleaned by the FBI and the military using their standard non-torture techniques.

These violations of the Geneva Convention generate charges of war crimes committed by Cheney/Bush.  I hope at least Cheney is charged and prosecuted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick: <i>&#8220;Not so. Try reading something besides the Post or NYT.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I am going on testimony by ex FBI and CIA agents which I&#8217;ve seen/read ever since we found out about the Cheney/Bush use of torture.</p>
<p>Cheney is the only advocate of torture that I know of, as justified by Yoo&#8217;s writing of law for that purpose.  The CIA torturers were acting on orders.  He has yet to demonstrate that torture produced actionable and/or useful information not already gleaned by the FBI and the military using their standard non-torture techniques.</p>
<p>These violations of the Geneva Convention generate charges of war crimes committed by Cheney/Bush.  I hope at least Cheney is charged and prosecuted.</p>
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		<title>By: Hube</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18772</link>
		<dc:creator>Hube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18772</guid>
		<description>Perry: Yes or no -- were Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Wilson great/good presidents?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perry: Yes or no &#8212; were Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Wilson great/good presidents?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18767</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18767</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The FBI and the military both claim that useful information can be extracted without the use of torture, that in fact the information gathered by torture is less than reliable.&lt;/i&gt;

Not so. Try reading something besides the Post or NYT.

BO has everything ass-backward; unless the goal is to destroy the Unites States as we know it. Unfortunately, as an inveterate Ayres-Allinsky aparatchik, that &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; his goal.

Stop the Commie bastards!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The FBI and the military both claim that useful information can be extracted without the use of torture, that in fact the information gathered by torture is less than reliable.</i></p>
<p>Not so. Try reading something besides the Post or NYT.</p>
<p>BO has everything ass-backward; unless the goal is to destroy the Unites States as we know it. Unfortunately, as an inveterate Ayres-Allinsky aparatchik, that <i>is</i> his goal.</p>
<p>Stop the Commie bastards!</p>
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		<title>By: Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18765</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18765</guid>
		<description>The FBI and the military both claim that useful information can be extracted without the use of torture, that in fact the information gathered by torture is less than reliable.  

Therefore, there is no defense for breaking the Geneva Conventions, as the Cheney/Bush administration were happy to do.  For shame on them!

David: &lt;I&gt;&quot;Habeas can be suspended according to the Constitution during war and insurrection by the Congress which gave the President a blank check to get these guys.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Maybe it can, but is it right to do so, especially in light of what I just wrote.  Habeas corpus is a basic of our jurisprudence system, yet people like Dick Cheney and David Anderson are quite willing to forget it when we are under stress.  I can&#039;t agree with that.

What I can agree with, however, is your criticism of Obama&#039;s policy to continue renditions.  Obama has slipped badly on that one.  I hope he reconsiders!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The FBI and the military both claim that useful information can be extracted without the use of torture, that in fact the information gathered by torture is less than reliable.  </p>
<p>Therefore, there is no defense for breaking the Geneva Conventions, as the Cheney/Bush administration were happy to do.  For shame on them!</p>
<p>David: <i>&#8220;Habeas can be suspended according to the Constitution during war and insurrection by the Congress which gave the President a blank check to get these guys.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Maybe it can, but is it right to do so, especially in light of what I just wrote.  Habeas corpus is a basic of our jurisprudence system, yet people like Dick Cheney and David Anderson are quite willing to forget it when we are under stress.  I can&#8217;t agree with that.</p>
<p>What I can agree with, however, is your criticism of Obama&#8217;s policy to continue renditions.  Obama has slipped badly on that one.  I hope he reconsiders!</p>
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		<title>By: Art Downs</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18763</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Downs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18763</guid>
		<description>The use of torture to obtain a confession was outlawed by the Fifth Amendment and rightfully so.  Torture was once part of the &#039;justice system&#039; and was supposed to stop at a certain point well short of death or permanent injury.  This practice has been halted in most of the civilized world.

The interrogation of captured airmen in Germany did not involve torture but clever techniques that revealed some information of interest.  However, persons likely to be captured seldom had any high-value information.  There were a few goofs where high-ranking officers privy to ULTRA were taken prisoner.  Most military information grows stale rather rapidly.

In the non-conventional warfare that is now the norm, we have no need for &#039;confessions&#039; but information needs to be extracted.  Not by the rack or thumbscrew but by techniques that will encourage a terrorist to reveal facts that can save innocent lives.

Some of these techniques may not get the ACLU seal of approval but we know whose rights they care about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The use of torture to obtain a confession was outlawed by the Fifth Amendment and rightfully so.  Torture was once part of the &#8216;justice system&#8217; and was supposed to stop at a certain point well short of death or permanent injury.  This practice has been halted in most of the civilized world.</p>
<p>The interrogation of captured airmen in Germany did not involve torture but clever techniques that revealed some information of interest.  However, persons likely to be captured seldom had any high-value information.  There were a few goofs where high-ranking officers privy to ULTRA were taken prisoner.  Most military information grows stale rather rapidly.</p>
<p>In the non-conventional warfare that is now the norm, we have no need for &#8216;confessions&#8217; but information needs to be extracted.  Not by the rack or thumbscrew but by techniques that will encourage a terrorist to reveal facts that can save innocent lives.</p>
<p>Some of these techniques may not get the ACLU seal of approval but we know whose rights they care about.</p>
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		<title>By: David Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18760</link>
		<dc:creator>David Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18760</guid>
		<description>Noman to me &quot;You are wrong about the Nuremberg Principles. There were many charges lesser than “slaughter.”

No, I was not.  The people charged with these lesser charges were mostly freed later on appeals or from pardons.  It was about the vindictive behavior of the victors not justice.

The POW&#039;s were entitled to legal protection by treaty.  Illegal combatants are not.   Most of the world recognizes that.  President Obama wants other nations to do the dirty work through rendition while not dirtying  his hands.  I don&#039;t respect that.  If you are willing to do rendition, don&#039;t stand on a soapbox claiming that you are morally superior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noman to me &#8220;You are wrong about the Nuremberg Principles. There were many charges lesser than “slaughter.”</p>
<p>No, I was not.  The people charged with these lesser charges were mostly freed later on appeals or from pardons.  It was about the vindictive behavior of the victors not justice.</p>
<p>The POW&#8217;s were entitled to legal protection by treaty.  Illegal combatants are not.   Most of the world recognizes that.  President Obama wants other nations to do the dirty work through rendition while not dirtying  his hands.  I don&#8217;t respect that.  If you are willing to do rendition, don&#8217;t stand on a soapbox claiming that you are morally superior.</p>
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		<title>By: G Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18757</link>
		<dc:creator>G Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18757</guid>
		<description>So when Thomas Jefferson landed US Marines in Tripoli to assault the safe havens of the Barbary Pirates was it a &quot;war of choice&quot; or a legitimate defense of American interests? Just askin&#039; since it was our first war against Islamist terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So when Thomas Jefferson landed US Marines in Tripoli to assault the safe havens of the Barbary Pirates was it a &#8220;war of choice&#8221; or a legitimate defense of American interests? Just askin&#8217; since it was our first war against Islamist terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Downs</title>
		<link>http://www.delawarepolitics.net/holder-chooses-terrorists-over-patriots/comment-page-1/#comment-18756</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Downs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.delawarepolitics.net/?p=5913#comment-18756</guid>
		<description>One of the follies of Wilsonism was that &#039;good intentions&#039; and public indignation were powerful weapons against the forces of true evil.  The concept was echoed by the following three presidents.  They oversaw the destruction of most of our Navy and even the abolition of the Black Chamber at the Department of State.  They believed that treaties and disarmament would make the world a safer place.

We see the same sort of starry-eyed sentimental slop coming from a variety of apologists for evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the follies of Wilsonism was that &#8216;good intentions&#8217; and public indignation were powerful weapons against the forces of true evil.  The concept was echoed by the following three presidents.  They oversaw the destruction of most of our Navy and even the abolition of the Black Chamber at the Department of State.  They believed that treaties and disarmament would make the world a safer place.</p>
<p>We see the same sort of starry-eyed sentimental slop coming from a variety of apologists for evil.</p>
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