GOP: Status Quo Or Giant Leap Forward ?
Dec 15th, 2009 by Frank Knotts
As members of the GOP we are seeing across the nation a back lash against the policies and agenda of the Democrats in general and against Pres. Obama specifically.
From the bailouts, to cap-and-trade and of course against their plan to socialize health care. The American people are concerned and in some cases frightened of the direction the nation is being dragged by an out of control congress and a president who wishes only to completely over-haul our economy and our very way of life.
We are seeing trends in many areas that lead us to believe that there will be a good chance for the GOP to make great gains in the 2010 and 2012 elections. We may not win back complete control in 2010, but we should see enough of a change to be able to put the breaks on some of this out of control spending and expansion of government.
If we look to polling we see a growing number of people , especially independent voters , identifying themselves as conservatives. We see a majority of citizens who oppose the Democrat plan for health care, we see a majority of citizens against cap-and-trade. We are also seeing Pres. Obama’s personal approval rating slipping lower and lower. He has now slipped below fifty percent , lower than any first term president at this point in their first year.
So, with all of these positive indicators of a move to the right, what will the GOP do to take advantage of it ?
Will the GOP play it conservative (no pun intended), and go with the same kind of middle of the road candidates that we have been losing so many elections with lately. Will we put up another Mitt Romney, another John McCain, another Mike Castle ? Will we again try to walk the tight rope of moderation. Will the GOP again attempt to be all things to all people , and in the end be nothing to anyone ?
Will the GOP candidates come out with watered down versions of Democrat ideas on things like health care and cap-and-trade ? Will the GOP again be just Dem-Lite ?
Will the GOP continue down this road of growing government? Just at a slightly slower pace than Democrats . I fear this may be the case if we the voters do not get involved and make our voices heard.
I believe we as a party are at an intersection in time. We must as a party make the choice between standing still and continuing on as status quo, putting forth the same old, tired moderate candidates that excite no one. Or we can move farther to the left and completely abandon what have always been the GOP traditional values and principles in a hope to attract more voters by pandering to the weak, entitlement minded voters.
But I believe there is a third and correct way forward. That is to move back to the right, from whence we came. I feel that at a time when the American people have been given clear examples of what liberalism is and what it can lead to, this is the perfect time to give them a clear example of conservatism.
Instead of candidates that merely tweak Democrat ideas, what the GOP needs is candidates with truly original, but conservative at the core ideas.
We have a unique opportunity. We have a president and a Democrat controled congress that are determined to push through the most radical leftist agenda that this nation has ever seen. It will and already has led to historical spending and debt , and has forced us to borrow huge amounts of credit from our ideological enemies the Chinese. And the President and the Democrat controled congress are doing this even though a majority of Americans oppose it.
This gives the GOP the opportunity to make huge gains in the up-coming elections. But only if we take advantage of the weaknesses of our opponents.
We should be demonstrating at every chance that we are given the difference between liberalism and conservatism. We should be telling the voters just how much they stand to lose if we do not roll back the spending and taxing that this administration is attempting to place squarely upon the backs of the working class of this nation.
But we cannot do this if we as a party put forth candidates that are indistinguishable from the Democrats. We must have candidates that do not have a voting history in congress that in many cases mirror that of the most liberal Democrat. We cannot put forth former Governors who put socialized health care in place in their states, that has led to higher cost and lower quality health care.
We need new voices , conservative voices, loud, brave and determined voices.
We are in a fight for the very future of this great nation, to determine in which direction it will go forth. Will it move further to the left and see its people taxed to the point of slavery to the government ? Will it attempt to hold firm to a moderate middle ground that causes the nation to constantly lurch from the left to the right and in the end get no where. Or will we work to move the nation back once more to the right, back towards its traditional values and principle. Those same values and principles that this great nation known as,” The United States of America” was founded upon .
The war is being waged, it is no time to hide behind the breastworks, it is time to go over the top and to take the fight to the enemy, and to never surrender the field.
I agree that if the Republicans don’t get back to their core conservative values of fiscal responsibility, small government, free markets, and upholding the Constitution; they will fail going forward!
Personally, I’d like to see the Tea Party movement take over the Republican Party and make it the party of the Constitution and conservative values!
It’s already starting to happen: http://taxdayteaparty.com/2009/12/liberty-movement-activists-take-over-gop-in-nevada/
Ideologically I agree with you. From a tactical perspective you’re very wrong. You’re a conservative political junkie. Most of our neighbors aren’t. The red meat issues that the Sarah Palin’s of the world throw out do not resonate with the average joe. Politics is local. You can’t come out of nowhere preaching right wing ideology and win elections. You need community standing. Any candidate that passes the right wing “purity test” is unelectable. I’m a right wing nut and offset my left wing counterparts. Elections are won by the voting group in the middle. You can win as a right of center candidate if you can get both the righties and lefties to support you because they agree on 7 out of 10 issues which are probably mutually exclusive to each group. If we clamor for candidates that are 10 for 10, our political exile will continue. Things are so screwed up voters are willing to step moderately out of their comfort zones. If you get way out of their comfort zone, they are going to maintain the devil they know.
The red meat issues that the Sarah Palin’s of the world throw out do not resonate with the average joe. – Anbupro
We’ve been on the same page lately but I think you’ve got it wrong here. If you take the time to talk to people out there instead of just making assumptions based on…I don’t know what you’re basing this on but it’s not the hundreds of people I’ve talked to…you’ll see that most people THINK more conservatively than they talk. It’s a matter of reversing the CNN/MSNBC labels and breaking down the walls between what they see and what they think. With that said, I do think that there are issues where some of the more right wing “nuts” are more out of touch with the people.
It’s not about being a “Conservative” really. It’s more about moving back to the founding fathers. The founders would stay out of many of the personal decisions that some on the right find it important to push on. That said, the founders would be much more thrifty and would not have setup these wide, sweeping programs. This is why the 9 Principles and 12 Values actually WORK…and resonate cross party lines.
I recently spoke to a Constitutional scholar who is not on the same side of the political aisle as I am. He had looked at the principles and values that I speak of and he was…perhaps not shocked but very much able to see the founders agreeing with them and also seemed very much himself to believe in them. I’ve also spoken to “average joe” Repubs, Dems and Independents who all find it very hard to disagree with those principles. So it’s now become clear that what we must help people to vote on principle instead of on party platform.
It depends where you ask if they like Palin. If you go into a seafood restaurant and ask a patron if they like seafood, the answer will probably be yes. I have neve spoken with anyone who voted for Joe Biden but he’s been re-elected forever. Pete DuPont and Ronald Reagan were both elected because the D’s screwed things up. Additionally, they had a plan that they could effectively convey that wasn’t divisive. I see that as the present condition. Don’t overestimate the electorate’s sudden “epiphany” to conservative values once the curtain of the voting booth is closed. The VWRC in me hopes you are correct, but the realist in me thinks not.
From a tactical perspective you’re very wrong.
Look who’s talking; we did it your way in ’08. The ‘moderate’ McCain got his ass kicked by an utterly unqualified candidate.
You can’t come out of nowhere preaching right wing ideology…
What is ‘right wing ideology?’ Reaganism (he sure did pretty well)? A belief in limited government as prescribed by the Constitution? Understanding that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to possess fireams? That the public schools have become mere indoctrination centers?
That we are spending our way into oblivion?
‘Right wing’ is a moniker used by the left as a condescending substitute for conservative.
Anbupro, you sound just like Keith Olberman; do the Republicans a favor and stay the hell out of the way.
In 2008, Jesus Christ would have lost if he was a republican.
Still, the average voter spends 21 minutes a week thinking about politics but many hours worrying about their job, health care and kids education.
I agree on standing for something clear and understandable. I have attempted to do that in statewide races. At http://www.rebuildthedelawaregop.com we lay out a few things.
Mike Protack
From whence we came? Reaganism?
Reagan spent gobs of money and gave amnesty to illegal immigrants. Reagan raised taxes. Reagan exploded the deficit. He would not be welcome in the GOP you want to create.
Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin is a complete idiot who quit her job when times got tough. How could anyone ever vote for that? Just because she currently claims the right positions on the issues doesn’t qualify her to be a dogcatcher. Millions of Americans are just as qualified. Even more so, since most of them didn’t quit a job they were elected to perform.
Socialized health care? Everyone in Massachusetts who has a plan has a private health plan, with the exception of people on federal programs, which Romney had nothing to do with.
Romney turned around a $3 billion deficit into a $1 billion surplus without raising taxes. In Massachusetts! That goes down as one of the great conservative executive performances of all time. Not someone like Beck & Limbaugh who just talk, but actual Conservative governing in a state where 80% of the people are in the opposing tent.
Give me someone competent as the 2012 nominee, someone like Romney, Pawlenty, Barbour, Thune, or best of all Mitch Daniels.
I know, I know, Frank. You want to purge the party of anyone who doesn’t fit the new Beck/Limbaugh/Palin definition of conservative. Something, by the way, Ronald Reagan would never have done. Ronald Reagan knew that to move the needle to the right, you needed the biggest team you could find. Reagan surrounded himself with people like Tom Evans and Mickey Edwards, guys that would never be welcome in the purgist GOP you want to create. That’s how he got to where he ended up.
Reagan was conservative? No. He just talked conservative. He talked like Frank here, but tripled the deficit, took national debt over a trillion for the first time, left office with the Savings & Loan bank meltdown costing us a $180 billion federal bail out. I loved Reagan. Voter twice for him.
I guess Cheyney and Bush were not conservative? They talked like Frank does, used all the same slogans. But they tripled national debt, ran biggest deficits in history, nationalized airport security, expanded government spying, added $300 billion part D drug entitlement to Medicare with no free market bargaining for drug prices. As conservatives Bush & Cheyney left office they begged for permission to buy equity in banks looking for $700 billion TARP to purchase “troubled assets” from the free market. I voted twice for Bush Cheyney.
Truth is, conservatives preach something that cannot ever be delivered. That is why we ran into a ditch. Same thing with the communists in the Soviet Union. They believed in something that could not be delivered. At least they were smart enough to ditch the failed ideology. “Conservatives” will have to do the same thing at some point. When you continue to espouse a failed philosophy that cannot be delivered – I think the word for that is – “charlatan”.
So just keep preaching that you can make everything smaller and cheaper with more freedom less regulation and lower taxes. The Marxist can keep preaching they can make everything equal where everybody owns everything and nobody owns anything.
The rest of us will follow those who deal in reality.
Rick, you fire breathers are a flash in the pan. The election is less than a year away. It will come and go before you know it. Feel good speeches and slogans don’t win elections. Organization and boots in the field do. Where’s your leader? What’s your message? We’re against everything? With your mindless attack style, you could probably get a seat at the Cannery. I’m a conservative and you piss me off. Imagine what the typical voter thinks.
Where’s Massachusetts health care right now ? Oh , I know sire Mitt left right ? It doesn’t matter if you put something in place that last long enough for you to put it on your resume’, and then goes to hell in a hand basket.
And yes Reagan ran up the deficit, for military funding, building up the armed forces that Carter had guttted, oh and by the way also out spending the Soviets to the point of them falling apart, so they didn’t so much change their system , as much as Reagan changed them. Reagan was cleaning up the mess made by Carter, the same as who ever comes after Obama will have a huge mess to clean up. You don’t stop the Titanic on a dime and turn it around.
And I certainly do not need to defend Gov. Palin , she did that quite well in her book. Talk about someone who actually took on the establishment, big oil, and her own party to fight corruption. Someone who was a town council person , a mayor and a governor and was the only spark in the failed Mc Cain campaign.
But I guess it is very easy for those of us who have never held an elected office to criticise.
As for her quitting the governorship, well I guess she could have stayed in office and fought all of the FOIA and corruption charges, all of which were found to be baseless, and been distracted from her job. But she put the people of Alaska ahead of her own political career, yeah we certainly wouldn’t want to elect a person with that much character. Better to elect some smiling idiot that will tell you one thing and then vote with the Democrats.
“And I certainly do not need to defend Gov. Palin , she did that quite well in her book. Talk about someone who actually took on the establishment, big oil, and her own party to fight corruption. Someone who was a town council person , a mayor and a governor and was the only spark in the failed Mc Cain campaign.”
Real objective viewpoint you have there.
Every Governor in America faces FOIA requests and political chicanery. They don’t quit. They do their job. She quit. That disqualifies anyone from being President in my book.
“Where’s Massachusetts health care right now ?”
Everyone in the state has access to private health care.
“But I guess it is very easy for those of us who have never held an elected office to criticise.”
You should remember that while you try to purge the party.
By the way, Frank, while you’re ordering around the Republican Party, you should probably talk again about how many times you voted for Thurman Adams, who oversaw the greatest growth in government in state history.
You are correct Frank, Reagan outspent the Soviet Union in the arms race, trouble was, he did it all with borrowed money – the old talk conservative, lower taxes, then borrow what you need. Sure we can outspend the Soviets, but let’s not have anybody pay for it. Bush Cheyney did the same thing. Lower taxes, then spend a trillion to fight the war. No sweat, no taxes, just self-indulgence. But I guess they weren’t “real conservatives”. Maybe we should vote for some new group of smooth talking new conservatives, not those phony ones. Why don’t we promise to fight the wars to the max, make the Government as small as it was fifty years ago when we had 100 million fewer citizens, all with lower taxes and more freedom. Get so blinded by your dislike of the other party you cannot see the sins of your own.
I agree with Dave about Romney. I don’t think he is the right man at the moment, but at least he’s not nuts.
Well Dave, you know that it had nothing to do with FOIA requests. It had to do with a flood of bogus ethics complaints. Unlike FOIA requests which are paid by the state and if they cost more than a threshold have a fee to the requestor, these cost the complainer nothing, but her thousands to defend each time. She was facing financial ruin even though she was innocent. She had accomplished every goal on her campaign list so why stay? That is the problem a lot of people run into, they stay beyond their time.
She was just an average middle class woman with a small business. She did not have a couple of mill lying around. Now I admit that she should have submitted a redesign of the ethics law to compensate for that flaw. That would have required her to swallow some pride as she helped write the law in first place.
She basically had two choices, one was be miserable and fight the ghosts of bogus complaints and destroy her families financial future or resign and fight another way while becoming a multimillionaire and securing that future.
I have a hard time finding the irrationality in that decision. I wish that she would have stayed because and changed the law to take away the experience argument (and I think that she would have benefited from it.) Yet, I can’t blame her.
Any rational person not consumed with the next step would have made the same decision. That is what makes her so intriguing. She makes decisions like a normal person and not like a normal pol. She may be exactly what we need.
DA — She quit. Bill Clinton didn’t quit when faced with the same amount of financial burden from legal matters during the Lewinsky affair. He fought back. She quit. Walked out on a job she took an oath to fulfill in order to enrich herself financially. Any objective observer has to see that as a disqualifier.
“She makes decisions like a normal person and not like a normal pol.”
We don’t need a normal person. We need an exceptional American, the best we can find, to lead the nation. Not an intellectually challenged talking point machine who quit her job when times got tough.
Many people thought that he should have including me. Clinton did not have the same issues. He had a lot of rich friends who paid his bills. He did not have a special needs child to think of financially. He did not have a better job offer.
She didn’t quit because she was a loser. She quit to take a better gig. If that is not good, I don’t know waht to tell you. That is why we have votes.
She is not my first choice because of the experience issue, but I disagree that she doesn’t have enough. If she were the nominee. I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Frank, this post sure stirred up a lot of controversy, good job! There is a lot of frustration built up in all of the folks who are somewheres on the right of center, so let’s focus on how to get the Republican Party to win in 2010 and 2012!!!
“Frank, this post sure stirred up a lot of controversy, good job! There is a lot of frustration built up in all of the folks who are somewheres on the right of center, so let’s focus on how to get the Republican Party to win in 2010 and 2012!!!”
How about everyone getting behind a true conservative that will be with us for many years such as Colin Bonini. Standing around and arguing over purity tests when there are bona fide conservatives actually running and needing help strikes me as ludicrous.
The answer is for Tom Ross and Priscilla Rakestraw to do the RIGHT thing and step down right now.
Tom, will you have the decency and intellectual honesty to do what’s right for the party and step down from your role as party head?
Priscilla, will you do the same? Will you step down and let new, conservative leadership step in to reenergize and reinvigorate the party?
What about the rest of the party leadership? Are you willing, for the good of the party to let people who are in tune with the realities of todays politics take over and run things?
I’m calling you all out right here, publicly because I KNOW you and your friends read these blogs. Answer the questions please.
“Rick, you fire breathers are a flash in the pan. The election is less than a year away. It will come and go before you know it. Feel good speeches and slogans don’t win elections. Organization and boots in the field do. Where’s your leader? What’s your message? We’re against everything? With your mindless attack style, you could probably get a seat at the Cannery. I’m a conservative and you piss me off. Imagine what the typical voter thinks.” – Anbupro
Rick’s comments in #5 are pretty mainstream for any TEA Partier, 9-12er and really regular voters when you talk to them.
1.) Limited Government – No conservative should be without this at the center of his/her belief system right? I mean this is absolutely CENTRAL to the belief system of most citizens…Government by my side, not on my back…out of my way but there to keep me safe.
2.) 2nd Amendment – Can any conservative disagree that the 2nd Amendment ensures that individuals are afforded the right to own guns?
3.) That public schools have become indoctrination centers – Since the turn of the 20th century public schools have removed teaching religion, creationism and history from the perspective of those closest to it including a drasticly scaled back early American history curriculum in favor of an increased focus on the Wilson, FDR and Johnson administrations. In most “textbooks” FDR and Johnson get chapters each where as Reagan and the founding fathers typically get only a few pages. Perhaps Rick’s language is a bit fiery by calling them “indoctrination centers” but given the fact that schools are increasing the teaching of the greatness of the labor union movement and the importance of big government programs, FDR’s 2nd Bill of Rights and so forth I’m not sure I can disagree.
In fact, I’ve taken this to the street…So far I’ve asked 20 people in the office and Rick’s points 1 and 2 are undefeated.
Point 3 has tallied 10 in favor…4 undecided (3 of them have children in private school…the other has kids in school in PA) and 6 against that opinion (2 of them have kids in private or charter schools)
He (Reagan) talked like Frank here, but tripled the deficit..
No president can ‘triple’ the deficit- or, balance it. That is a function of Congress.
Rick, you fire breathers are a flash in the pan.
You’ll be whistling a different tune in Nov.’10.
Organization and boots in the field do.
I worked for two national and one statewide campaign. Did you?
Where’s your leader?
Good question- but, as long as he/she doesn’t come from the McCain/Graham ‘moderate’ appeasement crowd, we’ll be just fine. I’m thinking Thune, possibly.
Rick…..Don’t yell at me (remember, I’m yer friend
) but I have to ask…”I worked for two national and one statewide campaign. Did you?” – Did the campaigns succeed?
Also…I’ll agree that “No president can ‘triple’ the deficit- or, balance it. That is a function of Congress.” but I’ll also say that a President’s policies being enforced by a thug Congress makes he or she complicit in the subsequent success or failure of the policies. IF however the Congress generally pushes back and impedes policy decisions subsequent successes and failures must rest solely on the shoulders of the rogue Congress.
WITH that said I would say fine, Reagan’s Congress tripled the debt…and Clinton’s balanced the budget.
I agree with Tennessee, I support Colin Bonini, and also Christine O’Donnell just to mention a few! The Republican Party must start to run fiscal conservatives that are willing to uphold the Constitution!!! I can live with a social moderate, but without a fiscal conservative/ Constitutional platform, they may as well run as a Democrat.
Our only chance to beat the Democrats is to change the direction of the Republican Party since I don’t believe a 3rd party will work. I was very involved with the Republican Party in Maryland before I moved here two years ago, and now it is time to get involved again. I ask all disgruntled Republicans to join me and do what you can to wake up your local Republicans and try to make the necessary changes.
I still say the problem going forward with “real” conservatives is all they have are slogans, not policy. How the heck does “government by my side not on my back” translate into our world? You gotta say what you want to do. Get rid of zoning or DUI laws? What is it you want off your back?
Can anybody here name some things you want to repeal?
Can anybody here describe how they would cut $700 billion out of the budget?
If all you are going to do is run candidates with slogans, anybody can do that. How about running for good and against bad?
Regarding Congress causing deficits not Presidents, ever hear of the veto? Bush did not veto a thing. Reagan not sure.
I thought among of our red white and blue conservative “principles,values” was character, courage, integrity. Now when somebody points out how two conservative talking Presidents blew the deficit up – all of the sudden we have a new “value” – weasel out of any responsibility and blame the other guy? Man up.
Dave, you say,”By the way,Frank,while you’re ordering around the Republican Party”. I have to say Dave that sounds very elitist. I am a registered GOP voter and it is my right as such and as an American citizen under the Constitution to voice my opinion. I am not some party hack who has dreams of being a big shot within the party or some lawyer with the hopes of a life time career as a politician. As a voter it is up to people like myself and others who may or may not hold the same opinion as myself to voice our opinions to the party of what we see as the best direction for the party and the government. And if the party leadership refuses to heed those opinions then it is also our right to work to change party leadership.
For you to act as if I and others who wish to see real change within the party are committing some kind of crime speaks more of you than of me or others.
Those who are considered the party establishment are to often confused into thinking they are the smartest people in the room , just because they got to the room first.
Some of us out here within the party , and again I am just a voter so why listen to me ? But we are fed up with the same old moderate , watered down message that some like to call conservatism. If you are not, then good for you. But why criticise me for putting my opinion out there along with everyone elses.
As for you seeming hatred of Gov. Palin, do you realize how much you sound like the left’s noise machine, you make the same arguments and level the same accusations. And I have to tell you if she scares the liberals and moderates like yourself that much then she must be doing something right. I guess she could have stayed in the governor’s job and used it to further her political career, after all that is what a career politician would do and I guess that is what some people want, just the same old status quo.
No, Frank. You stay in office because you were elected to it and you took an oath to perform it. Honoring an oath used to mean something. You don’t quit when things become difficult for you politically so you can personally enrich yourself. I can only imagine what Washington’s soldiers at Valley Forge, barefoot in the winter but committed to sticking it out for our independence, would think of such a stunt.
“I have to say Dave that sounds very elitist.”
But, of course, I assume you think that telling all of your fellow Republicans that we need to purge the party of anyone to the left of Glenn Beck is not. Especially with your history of voting for fiscal liberals like Thurman Adams. How you can justify your attacks on Castle after admitting your longstanding support for Adams is beyond me.
“As for you seeming hatred of Gov. Palin, do you realize how much you sound like the left’s noise machine, you make the same arguments and level the same accusations.”
I don’t give a crap who I sound like. It’s true.
“And I have to tell you if she scares the liberals and moderates like yourself that much then she must be doing something right.”
Only someone who is a new-wave, ultra-cultural purger would even THINK to call me a moderate.
Again, you always fall back into this defensive position like anyone who challenges you wants to silence your opinion. I don’t want to silence you. I want to expose you and everyone like you as the death march for the GOP that you are.
You should spend some time in Massachusetts. There is a robust social conservative movement. Except for one thing: they have no say. None. So they can just go on bitching and moaning, but they have no elected officials with which to make the changes they want to see.
That is your goal for Delaware, whether you admit it or not. You either want to spend life in the minority bitching about government or you want to be inside the government making a positive difference. To do the latter, you need a governing coalition. Reagan understood this, and that’s how he became president. He’s rolling over in his grave at what the purgers are doing to the party.
Now is not the time for internecine conflicts. Our country is at a tipping point that will soon be irreversible. Conservatives are wandering in the political desert right now and need to incrementally improve our position, not wait for postponed perfection. The majority of Americans realize our country is on the wrong path. Let’s utilize the hand that we’ve been dealt to maximize the amount of change that we can possibly muster to reverse our course from Obama’s Marxist agenda. It will take leadership to find the middle ground, as this thread has exposed. What is the largest coalition that we can put together without betraying our core principles? Don’t overestimate the strength of our position. The special interest groups, such as the unions, that comprise the Democrat Party aren’t going to fold their tents. It will take the passion of groups such as 9/12 paired with campaign experience to prevail in the next election. We have a lot of dead voters to overcome.
Anbupro – 9-12ers….TEA Party people and Conservatives by the dozens every day lose their support for the GOP candidates like Mike Castle and WILL NOT vote for him. If he and those like him are in the tent I assert that the majority of these folks would rather fold the tent then pull that lever and the Delaware GOP refuses to acknowledge that. The only way they will learn is to fail.
Nuts. Sure we have problems, but why talk crazy? You all say a lot but say nothing. What is the Obama “marxist” agenda? Do you just make crap up. or is there actually some policy Obama invented that you think is “marxist”. Are you able to express any complex thoughts or is smearing the President enough to keep you happy?
As an older guy who spent a lifetime fighting Marxist imperialism, who sighed with relief when the Soviet Union and the Wall went down – I find it totally mindless to use the word marxist to describe any of our domestic policy or our President. If this is what your “movement” believes, who do expect to follow this kind of stupidity? Maybe you were not around when Hitler and his movement was gaining steam – they too were big on stupid slogans used to attract stupid people.
“If he and those like him are in the tent I assert that the majority of these folks would rather fold the tent”
You wanna go? Then go. I’ll pay your cab fare.
But don’t come in and tell other people they have to go. Mike Castle was one of the people who BUILT the tent. I watched it happen. So you want to show up out of nowhere and try to toss people out of the tent? Good luck. I’ve learned that people like you who think they can come around and flex their muscles couldn’t deliver a pizza, much less an election.
You can go back to running your mouth now.
From Answers.com:
Marxism is the basic form and grandfather of communism. Marxism is the belief that the bourgeois have gained too much power and are controlling everything, while the workers and the proletariats have lost their say in what the country should be doing. So Marx and Engels believe that the working and middle class (the proletariats) should revolt and overthrow the upper-class (bourgeois) from power because all the proletariats have left to lose is the shirts on their backs and nothing else.
Then the Manifesto goes on to explain that the government would be run by the proletariat for the proletariat and everyone would be paid equally, given equal chances at schools etc. The government would have one ultimate leader and have all of their businesses owned by the government, so that no one business could become too powerful and push out small businesses painfully creating much economic strain on the owners and turning them out to the streets with little chance of survival.
Looks familiar to the Obama agenda to me.
Anbupro,
As you know TARP, authorizing the purchase of equity in financial institutions, as well as the original bail out for the automotive industry were not the creations of the current President. During World War II, the government took over almost everything from steel production to the auto factories. We had government coupons for rationed items. America has always taken extreme measure to meet extreme challenges. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Our Constitution always managed to right things after the emergency was over. What we are doing now is nothing compared to other periods in our history.
You explained the meaning of marxism, but you fail to provide any specifics as to what the Obama administration is doing that would justify smearing them as marxists.
You can’t have democracy and Marxism at the same time. Does your Tea movement believe the Obama administration is working to kill elections or do away with the three branches of government? Callingl the President “marxist” is just a simple cheap shot insult. An insult to anti-marxists like me who voted for and support the President.
No way you can get smart people to join a movement that can do no better than use Jerry Springer trash talk as a substitute for serious policy discussions. Ironically, the chest beating by people who call themselves “patriots” but refuse to abide by our elections. I feel cheated. We won a big election. Never expected the losers to disrespect our democracy. Funny, the definition of marxism you gave sounds like the Tea Party. Revolt against the ruling class. Trouble is in the United States the ruling class is elected. Unless you have a better idea, I say a good American is obliged to accept the outcome when we have a big national election. You get you chance in four years. Free Elections. That’s the biggest difference between us and Marxism. Some folks seem to forget how this is supposed to work.
Dave said, “You don’t quit when things become difficult for you politically so you can personally enrich yourself.” Dave you follow along enough to know that she resigned due to the fact that she was being hounded by the leftist media, the Democrat noise machine and even some from within her own party , many from the McCain campaign. How could she serve the citizens effectively ? But again I suppose someone who is only interested in promoting themselves would have stayed.
Dave also says,”Especially with your history of voting for fiscal liberals like Thurman Adams”, well yes Dave I did vote for Sen. Adams because unlike some people I am not a one issue voter. Mr. Adams did many things in this state to protect the traditional family unit. And as for his fiscal policies, at least you knew what you were getting, unlike Mr. Castle who will shake your hand and lie to your face while smiling that silly grin.
And lastly, Dave says, “I want to expose you and everyone like you as the death march for the GOP that you are. ”
So only you Dave and those who agree with you are right ? You would continue with the McCains and Romneys? You would again have us go down the middle of the road ? And please tell me Dave where that has gotten us so far ?
My original question was, status quo or giant leap forward? I am guessing Dave I can put you squarely in the status quo collumn. You are unwilling to read the political writing on the wall , people are tired of the same old song and dance and we are tired of the same faces being shifted from one office to another. We want honesty and we want people who represent us and our values. If you feel that Mr. Castle and Mr. Romney represent yours , well once again good for you, as for myself I am looking for more than an “R” I am looking for someone with a history of getting the job done, and if you would spend a little time looking into the things that Gov. Palin accomplished over the years , instead of lobbing insults, you might realize that she is a true leader, not just someone looking to fatten out their resume’ with a Senate seat before they retire.
You’re right. Mike Castle’s just awful, and the left just loves him.
And you can try to put me in whatever category you want.
“Dave you follow along enough to know that she resigned due to the fact that she was being hounded by the leftist media, the Democrat noise machine and even some from within her own party , many from the McCain campaign.”
And then, for her family to have a normal life and to keep the press away, she left for a private, family lifestyloe outside of the eyes of the press, right? No. It just so happens that she then formed a pre-presidential PAC, wrote a book and went on a lucrative speaking tour. She did what she did IN ORDER TO further her chances to run for President. So she’s as much a political opportunist as those you would accuse.
So you go ahead and exercise your right to support Sarah Palin. She’s counting on people like you who won’t question her “story.”
“yes Dave I did vote for Sen. Adams because unlike some people I am not a one issue voter.”
Clearly. You don’t really care much about fiscal matters. I don’t remember you being up in arms when Sen. Adams voted to put Delaware under a cap and tax scheme. But I guess that’s okay, because you “knew what you were getting” when you admittedly voted FOR him to be YOUR state senator.
And finally, your question should be status quo or a great leap backwards, not forwards.
“And please tell me Dave where that has gotten us so far ?”
Well, Frank, without the social/cultural conservatives, we would never have had the great Conservatives George W. Bush & Tom DeLay. $11 trillion later, how’d we do with that? And what exactly did the social conservatives get out of those 8 years?
Forgive me if I’m not willing to lay down for the next person who comes around and calls themselves “Conservative.” Especially if she ran an income redistribution scheme where she took money from private companies and turned it into checks for individuals.
I agree with Tennessee. Instead of hurling insults at the candidates that you don’t agree with, why don’t you get off of your lazy asses and work for the good conservative candidate who actually has a great chance of winning a statewide race, Colin Bonini for State Treasurer. Everytime he comes to Sussex, I help him out. How about you? Frank? Ed? Evan? Rick?
cookie, I agree with you. I do try to keep my oposition to a candidate based on issues and voting records. I must admit that sometimes I fall prey to lowering myself after someone acts like a thrid grader and uses words like idiot and stupid to discribe the candidates they “DISAGREE” with. As for helping out candidates , well we all do what we can. Not everyone has the time to donate. Many have jobs that require them to work even into ealry and late evening and weekends. Then you add in having a family and there is even less time.
This is why I am a big believer in talking to family and friends, the people you are around the most. They then will talk to others. We need to interact within our communities more.
Rush Limbaugh has started telling his listener that they need to be the “GO TO” person within their family and circle of friends when it comes to politics. This means being informed and knowledgable about current events. This would be the most basic of grass roots movements.
Another thing we can do to strengthen the party and make it smarter is to ease off the right wing media like Limbaugh. We don’t get our dinner conversation from Howard Stern, why would we get our politics from Rush Limbaugh? These man are entertainers, not leaders. If we expose ourselves to the full spectrum of opinions we are more likely to have a better informed view of things. If we constantly listen to one side or the other we are brainwashed. Fox and Limbaugh always warn against the “mainstream media” what they really mean is “the competition”. Don’t fall for that corporate brainwashing crap.
Unfortunately on my radio morning noon and night it is straight right wing talk radio. I have tried to limit my diet of that since so much of it is hate based plus a lot of what is said is either truth stretched or outright lies. But it’s hard to find anything else since Clear Channel Corporation purchased all the stations fired all the locals and syndicated just five or six talkDJ’s to speak to a nation of 300 million. After the Clear Channel inked a $400 million dollar payday for Limbaugh they laid of 9% of their workforce 1800 people to pay for it, so Rush could broadcast from Palm Beach and tell everybody how unAmerican it would be to raise his taxes to pay for benefits for laid off workers. Is that who we follow?
Having a balanced intellectual diet is as important as what we eat. Quit the propaganda machine. Broaden the view.
think123 , I agree, I myself watch CNN, MSNBC, as well as the braodcast channels ABC,CBS, NBC as well as Fox. For the more liberal view on radio there is NPR.
You complain that there is not enough competition on the radio. Ask yourself why that is. Other than NPR which is basically government radio, the other stations are run for profit. This means they put on what sells, or in other words what the people want to listen to.
As for whether we should listen to Limbaugh or Beck, well yes they are entertainers, but it is often hard to argue against the facts they deliver in an entertaining format.
You seem to be arguing against the messenger, while ignoring the message is true.
Maybe it is that they tend to speak of America’s greatness and the fact that if we hope to retain that greatness, then we must hold to the values that made us great.
Frank, not complaining about the messenger, complaining about who owns the messenger.
The reason you hear the same 100 songs on every radio station in America has little to do with listeners choice. The same thing is happening to talk radio.
The reason you hear Rush Limbaugh and his proteges all day and all night is a lot more complicated than you think. Consider this:
We used to restrict how many radio stations one corporation could own. But, just like with banking regulation, we got liberal with the old time tested laws.
The result? We gave birth to the new mega-sized radio station corporation conglomeration, just in time for the too big to fail banks. Clear Channel Communications is the largest radio broadcaster in the USA. Premier Radio Network is a subsidiary of Clear Channel. Together they claim to reach nearly 200 million listeners a week.
Premier Radio owns the Rush Limbaugh Show. Clear Channel Communications own Premier Radio. Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital owns Clear Channel. Bain Capital took it private in 2006. The nations largest radio broadcaster is privately owned, closely held, closely controlled by a group of investors. A group with a political mover and shaker like Mitt Romney right in there owning Rush Limbaugh.
So, for the same reasons you hear those same 100 songs over and over on every station in the USA, you hear Rush Limbaugh and his clones over and over on every station in the USA. It has less to do with listener choice than it has to do with forces way beyond our control.
Too many people don’t realize that Mr. Limbaugh is a paid lobbyist. The highest paid lobbyist in American history. Usually we take lobbyists with a grain of salt, knowing they are bought and paid to push some special interest on us. But for some reason Limbaugh, Clear Channel and Bain Capital have managed to escape the taint of being labeled a special interest lobbying group.
Funny thing is, I have working class friends barely able to get by, heat turned down to 50, hate to buy gas for the car anymore, not eating as much for dinner, no health insurance to speak of, but they listen to the Clear Channel lineup morning noon and night and come away saying we should lower taxes for people like Rush Limbaugh. They are being told by all the talent on Clear Channel that the only way to create more jobs is to lower corporate taxes, lower income taxes, ease up on regulations, get rid of the inheritance tax so billionaires can keep it all, stop complaining about air pollution, stop complaining about health insurance, repeal the minimum wage and keep the government out of things.
You can call that the “truth” Frank. I call it a bullshit lobbying spiel from a special interest aimed at securing more power for a group that already has too much power.
Sorry think123, I will have to disagree, I happen to think lower taxes will lead to a stronger economy for all. Pres. Reagan showed us that. As for your thought of Mitt Romney somehow owning the Limbaugh show, well he sure didn’t get his money’s worth during the primary. Limbaugh was constantly talking down Romney’s health care plan.
Frank, my point was there’s more to who dominates political talk radio than meets the eye – a lot of low information voters are indoctrinated by fast talking shills who are lobbying for corporate interests, not the interests of ordinary families.
Tyranny is not limited to government.
I think, think123, that your arguement would carry more wait if you did not restrict yourself to attacking only right wing sources. What about the Chris Matthews or Kieth Obermans on the left ? Are they any less the entertainers just because they happen to hold to a more liberal mind set? No, they just aren’t as successful at it as a Limbaugh or a Beck , because their message is not as well recieved by the people who buy things. And as for networks being in the bag for any one ideology or party or even a singal candidate or elected official, well please take a hard look at NBC’s overt support of the Democrats in general and Pres. Obama specifically.
I’m not that interested in what the other Party is doing, except to say the leader of the Democratic Party is President Obama, while on our side many think Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck are our intellectual leaders.
The other Party is winning because more people see Democrats as serious, while we are all caught up in theatrics mixed with some really vicious name calling.
I am picking on right wing media because they have been more blatant, they dumbed us down, exploited our base, created a a hostile political divide for profit that did not exist before.
We’re the Party with best selling authors with titles like “Deliver Us from Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism” or “Godless: The Church of Liberalism”. Saying liberals, democrats are godless in the same league with terror marxism despotism. Wanting to control every aspect of our being. We are the Party with radio and television personalities accusing the President of the United States of being out to destroy America with a hidden agenda.
Sure there is all kinds of bias in all news, but when Rupert Murdoch hired Ronald Reagan’s number one GOP media guru Roger Ailes as founding chairman of Fox News, that was the first time a political party ever set up their own TV network. Instead of being intelligent, Murdoch did what he did with the New York Post. He decided to exploit our right wing GOP base, give them red meat, good looking blondes, crime, sex, violence. That’s why you see Glen Beck pinning pictures of Marxist Che or Fidel or Mao next to pictures of the President of the United States telling us The President is out to destroy every decent thing about America. Then a beautiful blonde babe appears to deliver a Fox News Alert telling you the dismembered body of a missing bady was found headless on the highway, now back to Glen Beck and Hannity fighting to save us from communism. Howard Stern draws a huge audience with fart jokes, rightwing media does it by calling the President a traitor. I hate that so many Republicans buy into fart politics.
Thankfully while Fox gets 2 million viewers, the serious news networks still draw ten times that with around 22 million each night.
The Democrat Party is no longer winning. We just haven’t had another election yet to solidify the shift. Unfortunatly for them, in gaining all the power in Washington they promptly lost influence with the American people.
When I said Democratic Party was winning, I meant the most recent elections a year ago. For the White House, the House, Senate, and most of Delaware in the past few years. First time in history Delaware has not had a Republican in the US Senate. So you gotta’ admit somethings wrong.
We are never going to get back on top unless we come up with ways to solve problems. Right now our message is let’s not do anything that involves (gasp) the government. No TARP, no stimulus, no cash for clunkers, no GM bailout, no insurance reform – we say let’s sit back, not do any government stuff, let nature take it’s course. That’s what Limbaugh says, that’s what GOP leaders in the House and Senate say. That’s not policy. That is just taking the easy way out. Use a phony big government argument as an excuse to do nothing. Voters know doing nothing is not what made America great. I’m just glad we got the national interstate highway system built before Rush Limbaugh came along and screwed up the mind of the Republican Party up.
Personally, I think it’s conservative to stop health insurance companies from denying coverage on pre-existing. I think it’s conservative to tell them they can’t cut off coverage in the middle of an illness. It’s conservative to mandate 85% of premiums be spent on delivering medical care. It’s conservative to set up a Liberty insurance exchange where individuals, little businesses can be part of a huge new group pool to get pool rates just like the bigs banks. It’s good that we’re going to fund 1000 new community clinics to take pressure off emergency rooms.
In the next election, a lot of voters will look back and wonder what the GOP was doing while the rest of us were trying to fix something that needed to be fixed. We can say we were busy explaining why nothing government does works, that it’s all too complicated, costs too much, we’ll be better off doing nothing. Trouble is, I have a hunch a lot of this will work.
There will be statistics showing a huge decline in the number of personal bankruptcies due to bad health. A lot of good will come from what the other Party has done. So don’t be too eager for the next election.
At some point we in the GOP will have to return to being a Party that believes in something more than letting nature take it’s course.
think123, agian it seems that you are arguing with the delivery mehtod, not the message. Pres. Obama is a marxist at the very least, but actually he is a fascist, and to ignore it based on political correctness is dangerous. Why should we or those in the right wing media hesitate to call him exactly what he is ?We have for far too long done this and have paid the price.
Go Colin! (for Cookie)
Frank, can you tell us what a marxist is? What a fascist is? I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Your above comment sounds literally insane to me.
I know Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Mihn, Lenin, and Stalin fit the bill as marxist. Mussolini and Hitler are histories most infamous fascists. How is it you put the President of the United States of America in league with these people?
Q. What is a marxist?
Q. What is a fascist?
Q. What has the President done that justifies that kind of hate talk?
There are 6 or 7 major schools of economic thought today. The Marxist school, the Austrian School, the Chicago supply side school, the Keynesian school, the monetary school, the corporate state (fascist) school, and the Democratic Socialist school which is between the Keynesian School, and either the corporate state or Marxist school of thought depending upon the flavor. You could almost divide it into three. The free market school, the mixed economy school, and the socialist school. The current administration is either a Democratic Socialist administration or a corporate state administration. Keynesians do not take over huge segments of the economy. They are mixed economics in thought. The tend to emphasize private ownership and responsibility with heavy government oversight, demand stimulation, and an active fiscal policy. The government guides the economy, but the ultimate control is private.
We are well beyond that in intention.
Follow the links for what we mean by each school.
Just remember America is not about Maynard Keynes, Karl the Marx, Adam Smith or economic theories. It is about We The People and Democracy. It’s easy to get our loyalties confused with money matters.
What actions (not rhetoric) by the current President puts him in a category different from the former President? None. The cheesiest form of politics is name calling with nothing to back it up.
In the case of our present Commander In Chief, he is the embodiment of the 65 million citizens who voted for him. The expression of American will in the purest form – our elections. Wannabee super patriots need to take heed of the basics – respect our Constitutional process.
Even the most brilliant self-righteous know-it-all can’t know more than what is expressed by the will of the People.
Our Nation wasn’t founded to promote an economic theory. It was founded to enable people to shape the government they live under. To promote the general welfare. Happiness. Security. Freedom. That is what we strive for every election. Losers need to respect the winners. Be good sports, not poor losers.
On of our cherished values is civic virtue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_virtue
How can anybody possibly think they are some kind of red blooded all American Constitution loving fan of freedom and the American Way if they can’t even stomach the very basics – our national elections? Trying to discredit, destroy, slander a brand new President from day one? For sport, or spite. It’s anti-American. Self destructive.
think123, first let me just state that in my opinion capitalism is the anvil on which democracy was forged. Without the freedom of capitalism, we can have no freedom of choice, freedom to choose is our greatest freedom.
Now to answer your question of what is a fascist ? Well first, take note that I use a lower case “f” when I describe the President as a fascist. You of course throw out the Hitler comparision. Not the same thing. Hitler was a violent monster, it had nothing to do with his also being a fascist. F.D.R was a fan of Mussolini’s form of government (the father of Fascism by the way) and actually sent people over to Italy to study and bring back ideas to put into place here in the U.S. and did. I believe the current president has been compared to F.D.R many times and has taken great pride in those comparisions. In the early years of F.D.R’s administration fascism was not a bad word, it was only after we entered the war and needed to demonize Hitler and his allies that fascism became a negative to F.D.R and his administration .
A fascist is anyone who is in favor of, or supports fascism.
And fascism , as defined by the world book encyclopedia is: any system of government in which property is privately owned , but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while all opposition is rigorously suppressed.
So now I have to tell you how I see the current president as a fascist. Well let’s see , he orchestrated the take over of the banking industry through regulations and buy outs,he did the same thing with the auto industry, and now has set his sights on the health care industry.
Of course you will defend Pres. Obama by attacking Pres. Bush. Well I was against TARP and many of Pres. Bush’s spending programs. But as I saw them they were never an attempt to take over the industry in question, as it seems Pres. Obama intends to do.They were though many times counter to my conservative views.
As for your point of Pres. Obama and his agenda being the will of the people who voted him into office, well that may be. But the same freedom that allowed those people to voice their opinion and to elect him , also allows me and others to voice our opinion against him and his agenda, and to work to change public opinion and to remove him from office with the same process that put him there.
That is unless you would “rigorously suppress all opposition”?
Merry Christmas. You said the President of The United States was a fascist or marxist. Now you’re saying not the capital letter kind. That maybe when somebody says our President is a fascist marxist, they don’t really mean anything bad like Stalin or Hitler. You were talking about generic marxist communists fascist not the really bad kind. Sorry, it thought you were slandering the President. Now I understand. You mean under certain dictionary definitions looked at a certain way perhaps maybe President Obama is to be considered a fascist or marxist, but not like Lenin or Mussolini. Why work so hard to justify crazy talk? Why not just state your case without digging the knife of the communist fasicist smear into a President that so many of us voted for less than one year ago?
Just trying to figure how you can love the Constitution but not the Modern American Order arising from that Constitution.
It’s not an “attack” on President Bush to point out that President Bush orchestrated the takeover of banks as well as government intervention into the auto industry in 2008. I was in favor of that when President Bush initiated those policies, I voted for President Bush, but was sorely disappointed by events. I am in favor of the extension of the Bush interventionist economic policies extended by President Obama. You make it sound like there is something terribly different going on. You got yourself into this Glen Beck political pornography Fox News Alert stuff that is bad for the soul. Come back to America dude.
I am not sure what “regulations” you think are so hurtful. The requirements that banks not charge arbitrary fees penalties, exorbitant surprise interest rates increases? A friend of mind got hit with a $100 bank “fine” because the bank approved, instead of declining a charge that was over his limit. They can’t do that anymore. We have a regulation saying those who don’t pay back taxpayer bailout money have executive pay limits? Sounds good to me. Pretty soon there will be a law that says you can’t cut off a kids health insurance in the middle of an illness or deny health insurance to a sick person. That health insurance has to be arranged in such a way so as people do not go bankrupt when they get sick. I think that’s great. It’s the kind of change I voted for. So it’s not enough to say you don’t like these new “fascist” like “regulations” – you have to say who what when where how – if you want to be taken seriously.
In your writing you refer to all that’s happening as – “he” did this or “he” did that. “He” has his sights set on the healthcare industry. He being President Obama. In reality, it is not “he” who is doing “it”, it’s “we” the majority of the voters, people like me, the force behind the agenda. It’s the majority you have issues with, not “He”. Until another election changes things, we the winners are pursuing our Majority agenda. You, the Minority, need to bring voters to your side for next time. Slandering the winners, calling us fascist marxist is not going to help much. Nor is it in keeping with the American Christian spirit or civic virtue.
The United States Of America has always been, as it is now, part socialist part capitalist. A common formula for our GDP is GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports).
We have a public sector. We have a private sector. One cannot exist without the other. It is a symbiotic relationship. We do not worship at the alter of economic theory. It sounds like you are so consumed with the theory of Capitalism you have lost sight of real authentic American values which go far beyond how money changes hands.
think 123 , since you decided to put the word think in you alter ego, I would suggest that you do a little of it. First if you cannot seperate the violence of the Hitlers and the Mussolinis, from the economic system known as fascism and realize that what is happening in the nation you say you love so much is fascist , then you may want to rethink your thought process.
I stated I was against the Bush administration’s role in this process. As for using “he” and “him”, well since “he ” is the front man calling for these fascist changes at this time, it is “him” , that must take responsibility for these actions.
And to you majority statement, do you really believe that the majority of first time voters who put this president in office have any idea of the concepts that you claim they voted for ?
Your blind loyalty to this president makes me wonder if like Chris Matthews you get a tingle up your leg when Pres. Obama speaks.
Now to speak about regulations, your friend who was charged $100 for over draft, well he had the choice not to overdraft, he also has the choice to change banks after they apply a charge that he feels is not fair. And as to your pointing out that soon insurance companies will not be able to drop people who are already sick, okay so why must the congress and the president mandate every citizen buy insurance, in order to put that simple regulation into place ? That is unless the goal is to take over the insurance industry ?
You state your love of the Constitution time and time agian , so lead me to the part in the Constitution , where the government is given the power to mandate that to be a citizen we must purchase a product, or be fined or imprisoned ?
Frank, your attempt to justify calling the President a fascist is lame. How about I say you sound like the Timothy McVeigh anti-American militia fanatic who has no patience with the democratic system. Now I hope you are able to separate the insane violence of that militia from the general militia attitude. I do not mean to suggest you are like Timothy McVeigh, it’s you just have that anti-American government militia attitude – but not the bad kind. That’s how your explanation for slandering the President sounds to me.
The courts decide what is Constitutional not you or me. We shall see on healthcare. There is a lot about the modern world I cannot find enumerated in the Constitution, including why veterans get taypayer funded health care but the rest of us do not. Or why seniors get Medicare. But it’s all Constitutional according to our system of checks and balances.
Regarding the election of the President, you might think the majority is not as smart as you, that somehow voters got fooled did not know what they were voting for, but I have faith in the individual. I think most voters are as smart as you. I knew exactly why I voted Democratic for the first time. And yes, a couple of times in the fall of 2008, when people were scrambling to take money out the bank for fear of a panic, I found the oratory of Obama, not McCain or Palin, worthy of some spine tingling chills. I got that from Reagan too a couple of times. And from the Kennedy inaugural. Nothing wrong with feeling the buzz of some passionate world class oratory. Obama was great during the campaign.
Why in the world would you take the side of the credit card bank not the consumer? My friend has a card with a limit. The bank keeps the limit, not my friend. The idea that out of the blue your over limit purchase is not declined, but instead they approve the over limit purchase in spite of a stated limit, then tack on $100 penalty is a rip off Frank. Next thing you’ll be saying there is no such thing as a rip off, just good companies serving dumb customers. That is how extreme you sound.
How about that Bernie Madoff guy and Enron? All those stupid investors, believed everything the annual report and the accountants told them. And out there in California when Enron created an artificial shortage of electricity to scam for higher profits? All those stupid consumers kept on using that high priced electricity. Why are the little guys so dumb?
If people like Frank were half as obsessed about the needs of their fellow man, as they are totally obsessed about abstract theories, who is what kind of ideology we could make some progress.
You got passion Frank, you gotta come back to America. Join the mainstream.
think123 says,”The courts decide what is Constitutional not you or me. ” Well think123, I believe the Constitution was intensionally written in language that was understandable to all literate citizens, so that they could understand their rights. The courts are not the final judge , the people are.
think123 also says, “Why in the world would you take the side of the credit card bank not the consumer? My friend has a card with a limit. The bank keeps the limit, not my friend. The idea that out of the blue your over limit purchase is not declined, but instead they approve the over limit purchase in spite of a stated limit, then tack on $100 penalty is a rip off Frank. Next thing you’ll be saying there is no such thing as a rip off, just good companies serving dumb customers. That is how extreme you sound.” So your friend has no personal responsibility to know what he has spent on the card and whether the next purchase will put him over the limit ? Are you saying that it is the bank’s job to baby sit your friend’s life ? I’m sure that somewhere in the contract your friend agreed to these penalties were mentioned, but of course we can’t expect people to actually read these contracts, maybe we need a government program that offers to have a government employee read your contracts for you. It is this attitude that leads people to believe that it is government’s role to guide us through every day of our lives.
“How about that Bernie Madoff guy and Enron? All those stupid investors, believed everything the annual report and the accountants told them.” Again , personal resonsibility, or to boil it down ,buyer beware.
“And out there in California when Enron created an artificial shortage of electricity to scam for higher profits? All those stupid consumers kept on using that high priced electricity. Why are the little guys so dumb?”
think123, if you would research the California energy shortage you will find that it was caused by the state of California imposing artificial price caps on energy suppliers . This then lead to a situation that allowed Enron to step in and take advantage of the situation. But of course you don’t think the state did anything wrong.
You speak of the Constitution not enumerating many of the issues of the modern world. The Constitution is not intended to address every personal dilemma that we come across in our lives, it is intended to restrict our government from running our lives, but too many people have attempted to coopt it into a document that gives power to the government to make decisions that are best left to the individual.