Every Man for Himself
Dec 24th, 2009 by Timothy Pancoast
As our Federal government grows, rather that making America a more close knit nation I see the opposite effect occurring. It has cultivated an attitude of every man for himself among the states, or at least among their Congressmen and Senators. We are no longer a United States of America. The behavior of the Senate in buying votes is so reprehensible that even moderates like Rep. Castle are up in arms about it. However, I am not sure if even at their level of outrage they have recognized the full impact of what is happening to America. I doubt I have either.
There is no better example of the divisiveness of America’s race to big government than the health care bill which just passed the Senate this morning. We have seen a lot of discussion on how votes have been bought off, but what effects will this really have on America? The polarization of the parties is clear. However, this is also creating divisions between the states. We can’t really claim to be United States when the Senators of several states are being coerced into looking out for themselves at the expense of other states. You can’t funnel tax-payer money from my state and give it to other states without me reacting. The states of Louisiana, Nevada, Connecticut, and several others have been placed on one side of a line, while the rest of us are on the other, the takers and the robbed.
If left unchecked this policy of bribing Senators with money for their state at the expense of other states will fracture and divide the union. However, the goal of the radicals is not to bring unity to the states, but to grow the federal government big enough and fast enough that before the conflict comes to a head, the states don’t matter any more. In that case we would become America without the states.
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I don’t think it is fair to accuse former President Bush and the GOP Congress by his side for most of his eight years, of being a radical bent on growing the government to the point where the States don’t matter anymore.
Sure the former President grew the government bigger and faster than ever, including the gigantic new Department of Homeland Security, nationalized airport security, and sure, President Bush created record setting deficits, tripled the national debt, then authorized $700 billion for the Department of Treasury to buy “troubled assets” – but I do not think he is a radical, nor was he trying to dismantle the United States. Hopefully the new President, now in office for not quite a year, will help us find our way back from the brink.
Feel free to hope in the current President. However, his actions and that of the current Congress do not support that hope, and in fact show that they are racing faster to the brink than ever before. I am pretty new to politics but I have been trying to slow this down this rush to self destruction since the second Bush term.
At this point though I know that any faith placed in Washington D.C. is misplaced. We need to start placing our hopes and faith where they always should have been, on the American people and in God. That was sufficient to give this nation its start and will get us through the current struggle too.
Have a Merry Christmas, with these closing thoughts of God and my fellow citizens, I know I will.
Sure the former President grew the government bigger and faster than ever…
Disappointing, for sure…but, BO and the Socialist-Democrats have managed to triple Bush’s deficit in one year. Of course, who expected otherwise?
“Stop the Marxist Bastards”
Well I guess me and all the friends I know who fought here at home and abroad and died in faraway places like Vietnam and Korea fighting the communists for fifty years, now have to put up with ignorant young people calling us “Marxist Bastards” just because we support the President. What a sick way to address brave loyal Americans just because they don’t think like you. I have a feeling little Rick here was not around when we had to risk our lives to defeat the “Marxists” so he could live free. Anybody see the movie Idiotocracy? About how dumb ignorant people end up controlling America? Rick would fit right in. All smarted up with dumbness.
Think123, you are the one that chose to apply that lable to yourself.
Rick applies that quotation to ALL of his posts as a singature, and a general wake up call to everyone. There are still Marxists and they are still trying to advance their agenda even here in the US as well as in the rest of the world.
I would hope that Korean and Vietnam Vets realize that the push for Marxism is still occuring and it is just as wrong as when they fought against it in those wars. I’d imagine that most do and I am glad that they are still continuing the fight. I know that I rub shoulders with many of those that continue to live by the motto “Semper Fidelis” every day and I am proud to associate with them. They help inspire me to continue to champion the principles of Individual Liberty and Capitalism as opposed to Dictatorship, Communism, Fascism, and Marxism.
Timothy, there is no Marxist threat anymore. But the whole Tea Party deal waves all kinds of signs saying Obama and his supporters (me and my friends) want Marxism. It is a totally absurd proposition. Insulting and stupid. Right in line with worrying about UFO’s and an astroid hitting us.
Nobody wants Marxism. Marxism never got anywhere without force and nobody can force us. For us to become Marxist we would have to get rid of our entire government, turn over everything to an unelected dictator, and abolish the Constitution. That’s what being Marxist means.
Don’t make it sound like Stop The Marxist Bastards is some kind of generic theme. Who is it directed at Fidel Castro? No it’s directed at the President and his supporters. Like I said, a lot of those supporters actually fought the Marxists with their bare hands. Like another generation fought the Nazis. It’s just not something you throw around. Calling people Nazis and Marxists. Find some new ways to insult the Democrats, but don’t dishonor our victory over the Marxists.
The call to stop the Marxists is aimed at Americans and Capitalists. Fidel isn’t going to stop the Marxists. Howerver, the President himself can help if he so chooses. I hope that you will awaken to the creeping Marxism we have faced for years now and rejoin the fight it as well. We have no more secured a final victory over the Marxists ideology than we secured final victory in Iraq when President Bush had his infamous photo-op on the battleship.
To claim that nobody wants Marxism is naive and ignores reality. To say that it is confined to nations like Cuba and North Korea is also to deny reality. I am personally aquainted with some people up at UD that openly would love to see a faster expansion of Marxism, specifically Communism in the United States. Our conversations have always been somewhat interesting and lively to say the least. There are many others that advocate the principles of Marxism without even realizing what they are doing.
I am afraid that I can not ascribe to your description of Marxism, though that may be one aspect of it. Marx himself would likely take issue with it as well. It can easily be argued that Marx was a historian more-so than a philosopher, economist, or anything else. He was a master of history to the extent that he even reshaped it or at least the peoples perception of it. Those that are pushing Marxist ideology today are also masters of history.
Karl Marx did teach according to his theories that revolution becomes necessary. However, he also taught the conditions that, according to him, make it necessary. Esentially those conditions are that civilization is healthy so long as the superstructure remains in accordance with the economic situation. However, the economic situation is constantly changing and changing faster than the social superstructures can keep up with. When people don’t understand history and its laws well enough to keep up with the changes in the economy then revolution becomes necessary.
Today’s Marxists know that while those that are blind to them do not. The Marxists are taking advantage of that fact. So long as Americans believe that the only way to bring a nation under the sway of Marxism is through a violent revolution we will remain wide open to its encroachment.
Well my last comment was a little long so this one I will keep brief. If you wish to take offence to people that are still trying to stop of the spread of the various forms of Marxism than please do. We mean it, at least to those who do not want to see those ideologies stopped. If you are content and even support what I see as the encroachment of Marxism in America than you probably should be offended by me.
Timothy, we have Marxists we have Ku Klux Klan, all kinds of tiny fringe thinking in America. But of all the things we need to keep an eye on, Marxism is not on the radar. Stick a fork in it. Marxism was tossed on the ash heap of history, the whole world knows Marxism as fatally flawed theory tried and failed last century, totally obsolete in the modern world, not applicable in a global economy.
The Soviet Union Eastern Europe ditched it, China is ditching it. Ask the top 500 economic advisors here and abroad what the future of “marxism” is. The answer will be “zilch”. Zero. Nada.
Maybe you equate Social Security or Single Payer Health Care for Seniors and our Veterans to be some form of Marxism, but it is not. You could better your argument by using accurate words.
I have had many conversations with many folks who support the President. All anti-communists during the war against Marxism, no one would support any President that showed any sympathy to something as un-American as Marxism. That is why I get on you about stopping the insults. The slander. Suggesting the President and his supporters are Marxist sympathizers is just a plain rotten thing to say.
Only one place I hear Marxism being sold as a “threat”. That’s on the Fox channel. Especially Glen Beck. I hope that is not what happened to you. What you see there is entertainment aimed at getting you excited then selling you something. Exploiting your fears through conflict. Don’t let one TV channel be your guiding light good citizen.
“But of all the things we need to keep an eye on, Marxism is not on the radar. Stick a fork in it. Marxism was tossed on the ash heap of history, the whole world knows Marxism as fatally flawed theory tried and failed last century, totally obsolete in the modern world, not applicable in a global economy. ” – think123
Hey…you may want to let Obama, Van Jones, and most of the “CZARS” within the Obama administration in on your declaration that their chosen method of destruction of the United States is “tossed on the ash heap of history” lol…..This is why Delaware Liberal(s) bloggers (that’s a double pun damnit, you didn’t think of it) are laughed at…because your arguments are weak, pathetic and flat out wrong.
Marxism is a particular political philosophy, economic and sociological worldview based upon a materialist interpretation of history, a Marxist analysis of capitalism, a theory of social change, and an atheist view of human liberation derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. The three primary aspects of Marxism are:
1.) The dialectical and materialist concept of history — Humankind’s history is fundamentally that of the struggle between social classes. The productive capacity of society is the foundation of society, and as this capacity increases over time the social relations of production, class relations, evolve through this struggle of the classes and pass through definite stages (primitive communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism). The legal, political, ideological and other aspects (ex. art) of society are derived from these production relations as is the consciousness of the individuals of which the society is composed. You mean to tell me that the Obama Administration isn’t using class warfare tactics? Did I miss something or has one of the loudest messages both during the campaign and during the last year been that the Bush Administration favored the rich over the middle class with tax cuts and that the TEA Party activists are being “funded by BIG HEALTHCARE!!!”….Yea I must’ve missed something *rolls eyes*
2.) The critique of capitalism — In capitalist society, an economic minority (the bourgeoisie) dominate and exploit the working class (proletariat) majority. Marx uncovered the interworkings of capitalist exploitation, the specific way in which unpaid labor (surplus value) is extracted from the working class (the labor theory of value), extending and critiquing the work of earlier political economists on value. Although the production process is socialized, ownership remains in the hand of the bourgeoisie. This forms the fundamental contradiction of capitalist society. Without the elimination of the fetter of the private ownership of the means of production, human society is unable to achieve further development. So the Obama administration hasn’t been pitting the EVIL COPORATE LEADER MINORITY against the American worker? Really? The Obama administration doesn’t support the message of unions who are exploiting the Marxist ideology that business leaders are evil and the workers must unite to destroy them? Obama and his administration haven’t moved at all to take ANY ownership of companies (especially those industries dominated by union labor?) *cough GM Cough* right….gotcha
3.) Advocacy of proletarian revolution — In order to overcome the fetters of private property the working class must seize political power internationally through a social revolution and expropriate the capitalist classes around the world and place the productive capacities of society into collective ownership. Upon this, material foundation classes would be abolished and the material basis for all forms of inequality between humankind would dissolve. Hmm…yea I haven’t seen ANY movement toward any international governance…well unless you count the fact that the Obama administration has decided that our schools must adhere to UN standards on a quality education, the discussions of the need for a new world currency, the rapid devaluation of our currency and the calls by some within the Obama justice department to adopt international legal concepts such as “Sharia Law”. I can see how this wouldn’t fit into the administrations current structure though…
Perhaps you could read the following description of Marxism here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism#Principal_ideas
Evan, we have been arguing the gap between rich and poor since day one in this country. Has nothing to do with Marxism or class warfare. If somebody says working people are getting the shaft, and rich people are getting too many breaks, that is what American politics are all about. American as Apple Pie. We were saying that stuff when Karl Marx was still in diapers. Americans were among the first class warriors. It’s the reason we left the Old World. It’s why we broke away from the King. We did not like the unfair class set up, where a person’s destiny in life was a result of his class. Jefferson and the boys were the original class warriors in my book. I have always lamented the fact Marxist stole American thunder on that with the false promise of some pure utopian set up where everybody would be equal. We all know Marxism is bullshit Evan.
Warren Buffet’s critique of the Bush top tier tax cuts, where he pays 15% while his office staff pays 30% is well known. He thinks it stinks. He says workers earning income are getting shafted at higher rates while billionaire investors who earn income through dividends pay half. Sure you can argue the pros and cons, but it has nothing to do with marxism or class warfare. Chill. Only a paranoid fool looking for a reason to detest people would think that Buffet and those of us who are concerned about the gap between rich and poor are “marxist”. That fact is, the greatest danger to capitalism is when the wealth gap becomes unbearable. That is precisely why we have always been a nation that redistributes wealth by various means. That redistribution is in part moral, the Christian Way, but it is also a mechanism for self survival.
You are being told lies if you are being told President Obama is pitting us against “evil corporate leader minority”. That is a lie you heard on the radio or TV. It is not true. The only people I have ever heard use words like that are TV or radio personalities insulting the President. They tell you he thinks that way or talks that way. But he does not. Ever notice how conservatives are the only ones that say crap like “they think profit is evil” – they just make shit up. Nobody I know or voted for ever said profit is evil. Only conservatives say that they say that. Look up the definition of strawman. That is how you are being conned. I have never heard The President or any of his supports use the work evil to describe any corporate leaders. The President and First Lady both come from hard working typical American families. Both worked very hard at everything they ever did. How you could be tricked into believing there is something marxist going on is the really scary thing. I have heard people talk about excessive greed and corruption in the corporate world. Fat cat bankers. But that is real sometimes.
You are living in a make believe world filled with make believe enemies being told they are saying make believe things. Nobody I know, ever said anything about big corporations being evil. Only the followers of Rush Limbaugh talk like that, people like you talk like that.
PLEASE NOTE: No – President Obama has not moved to take anything over. This crazy talk is from that same make believe fantasy world created inside talk radio and Fox so they can sell advertising. And you are falling for it. President Obama did not initiate the buying of bank equities (TARP) or the bailout of GM. Those emergency measures were initiated by President Bush. Those measures enjoyed bipartisan support and were backed by conservative thinkers like super capitalist Forbes Magazine:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/1110/162.html
Forbes backed the GM bailout. Nobody with any brains sees any Marxism is any of that. None of this has anything to do with anybody being a Marxist. Only cheesy radio and TV personalities out to make a buck say that crazy shit.
I don’t need to read another description of Marxism. I studied it all my life. Fought it all my life. Now it is dead. We won.
However, certain entertainment companies have discovered there is a certain demographic they scare shitless by pushing the old conflict of us versus the commies. Sort of like professional wrestling. People know it is all horseshit but they love it anyway. That is what Fox and Limbaugh are. The professional wrestling of politics. They make enough on advertising to this demographic to pay just one of their DJ’s $400 million. Apparently they got to you. You must be a listener, and a very engaged one at that. They are feeding your brain shit. That’s okay, but just don’t come out here in the real world and expect to get away with insulting people and calling the marxist commies. Save that for you and whatever shows you watch.
I lived for fifty years fighting the “twilight struggle” described by President Kennedy. Fighting for the principles passed to us by our ancestors, described by Kennedy’s inaugural: “That the rights of man come not from the generosity of the State, but from the hand of God.” That is the America I believe in. That is the reason I voted for President Obama. Maybe for years from now I won’t feel that way. But I know he is as good an American as any I have seen in my lifetime.
The only people that will believe Marxists are washed up and no longer hold enough influence to be relevant are those who are ignorant of history. Unfortunatly there are plenty of them.
Thank you Evan for providing some of that history.
Think123, I make use of some resources that perhaps not all Americans have at their finger tips. They are called books. I do listen to Glenn Beck on the radio and have since about 2002. However, I read books, some are by contemporary authors such as The Forgotten Man. Others are printed on war paper, you probably are aware of what that is. What I have read in books generaly bears out the concepts and principles Glenn Beck refers to on his program, though with less theatrics and drama. Marxism was quite popular with a lot of Americans leading up to the Depression and WWII.
One thing I find interesting is that we have the Congressional Record available online dating back to 1989, the year the Berlin Wall fell, and much of the world started think Communism would no longer be a problem. The rest of the record is still available but much harder to get ahold of and search. The online transcripts of the Congressional Record do pick back up in the 1870s, when Marx was alive but before Marxism had taken off as a global political force. It is somewhat hard for the average American to view the dealings of our government with the active Communist nation of Russia. It is much easier for history to be clouded and manipulated when it is harder for the citizens to access it directly. I’m just saying.
Tim J., I hear what you are saying. I know you want us to hold tight to American values. We all want that.
I not saying it’s bad to be on the look out for bad stuff, but for God’s sake will you guys please let the corpse of communism rot in peace? Worry a tiny bit if need be, but we pretty much stomped it to death. Hitler. Imperial Japan. The Commies. Time to move on.
Glen Beck has your number. What could be more politically erotic than the thought that the President Of The United States is fixated on a foreign anti-American ideology? Bent on transforming America into something we have all dreaded for 75 years. Marxism. It is pure fiction. Jack Bower 24. Can you imagine trying to rule America through a “dictatorship of the proletariat”?
We all watch all that stuff, but when you get a steady diet of it, start buying into the bullshit, it’s not good for America. Next thing you know you got people, good normally sane Americans, holding up signs with the President dressed like Hitler or carrying a hammer and sickle.
If I didn’t know any better I would think Al Qaeda was trying to diminish the authority of the American Commander In Chief during these critical times, but it’s not the Islamonuts chopping my man Obama down, it’s red blooded American patriots on TV doing it. Weird. But there’s money to be made, advertising to be sold.
You are correct about communism in the early 30′s. In 1932 the Communist Party candidate for President got 100,000 votes, the Socialist Party got 700,000. For all the elections after that, as things improved, they all went downhill. Even in desperate times Americans never had much of a stomach for that workers Utopia crap. Maybe young people need a reminder, but everybody I know knows communism is all total crap. No threat to anything, except maybe the sanity of the paranoid.
There will always be nerdy professors and political extremists who can talk all night about capitalism and communism. Sort of like the old timers who can talk forever about how they walked to school in the snow with a nickel in their pocket. It’s old. It’s over. As I stated earlier – ask the top 500 brains in world what the future for Marxism is. The answer will be: Zilch, or maybe what the hell are you worried about Marxism for? It’s an obsolete concept from times past. In modern times policies are either practical or impractical. Modern economic theory no longer attaches the baggage of abstraction. If something works good, it is good policy. If it works bad, it is bad policy. The intellectual distinctions between capitalism and socialism and the rest are no longer relevant when viewed through the prism of efficacy.
The closest we came to communism was at the time of the Great Depression. If half the population is on the street begging for apples, you are going to get all kinds of demagogues pushing anti-capitalist crap to desperate people. That is why we never let that happen. We never let things get too desperate in America. That is how we protect freedom, capitalism is one extension of that freedom.
You can read all you want about Marxism. Nobody is denying the theory exists. What I am saying is, don’t let some clown on TV con you into thinking it’s something we have to worry about. The worst any President can do is screw us up for four years.
I voted for President Obama. I support President Obama. Nobody I know thinks profits, big business, working hard, being rewarded for working hard, is bad much less evil. Everybody I know understands how business free markets democratic capitalism have been a boon to mankind. Nobody I know thinks lazy people should get stuff for free. Everybody I know believes in God.
Well I guess me and all the friends I know who fought here at home and abroad and died in faraway places like Vietnam and Korea fighting the communists....think
Where did you ‘fight’ the communists?
Timothy, there is no Marxist threat anymore...think
Socialism is Marxism, fool. The nationalization of the auto industry, banking and healthcare is socialism.
..don’t let some clown on TV con you into thinking it’s something we have to worry about...think
And don’t let some babbling old fool try to tell you it (Marxism) doesn’t,/i>’exist.’
What I have read about Marxism is enough to let me know that its theories are being put to work in our nation. I can’t say if they are being implemented intentionally or because of naivite and willfull ignorance. I have my suspicions, but I can only guess. However, if you can’t accept that Marxism is being advocated in America than you have brought into their propoganda and have become a tool of your enemy.
I afraid that some of those who fought in Korea, Vietnam and the Cold War, were fighting Korea, Vietnam, and Russia, perhaps militant Communism, but not Marxism. Someone who really fights Marxism will oppose it whether it appears in the form of a violent Communist regime or quietly in the halls of their own government and schools.
As to Glenn Beck, perhaps he does have my number, but someone also has yours and it isn’t Beck. You are listening to someone or some collection of people that inform your opinions, and that person(s) is not conservative.
By the way, if you really know history you know that America’s fasination with Marxism started before the depression. People were making trips over to Russia and meeting with the Communist leaders well in advance of the Depression. There they ejoyed wonderfull tours on the Communist propoganda express. It wasn’t till the end of WWII it became clear to the majority of America that Communism had a darker side.
Now, America and much of the world are in that pre-Depression/WWII mindset concerning a different variation of Marxism. With the guns having been taken out of the picture people are starting to think that its priniciples look acceptable, even good. History repeats itself.
One final word for this comment. Communism is a form of Marxism not the other way around. I think this may be one of the points which is keeping us from reaching an understanding even if we don’t agree with each other.
think123 “thinks” he is Obi Wan Kenobe…..I mean we can all see that my facts are spot on but typical progressive liberal that he is, he thinks he can wave his hand and we will all believe none of what we see is real…He uses phrases like “You saw that on Fox News” or “You heard it on talk radio.” and “Well the bloggers said THAT.” to try and shift the debate off of the issues that are the TRUTH and onto whatver magic trick he has in his other hand. Well Think123…”You’re Jedi mind tricks won’t work on me boy.”
Timothy, thank you for explaining your position a bit more.
My point has more to do with fair play in political debate than what is Marxism. For the record, the CIA definition of Marxism:
Marxism – the political, economic, and social principles espoused by 19th century economist Karl Marx; he viewed the struggle of workers as a progression of historical forces that would proceed from a class struggle of the proletariat (workers) exploited by capitalists (business owners), to a socialist “dictatorship of the proletariat,” to, finally, a classless society – Communism.
.https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2128.html
We all know Marxism exists, mainly in books. It’s just irrelevant.
The CIA label five nations as communist states: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam. In political discussion words communist and Marxist are nearly synonymous. I hate that we have sunk into the gutter, not satisfied to call Democrats liberals, then traitors, treachourous leftists, now we move on to Marxists Communists. Next, when the sting of Marxist wears off, maybe we call Democrats who want single payer health care just plain evil anti-Christ bastards. It makes me sad to see Republicans being so obnoxious.
We have taken to the extreme by labeling the loyal opposition Marxists. It is a false claim based on lies. Ironically, the same propaganda tactic the real communists used to use. The Big Lie. Demonize the enemy. Your cause is so righteous, you can devise your own truth. You can say things like “they” hate the idea of profit, “they” don’t like free enterprise. The communist used to say “they” hate the workers. But it is all voices in the head. The “they” do not exist in any significant way in any significant office in any significant political party in America. You are fighting the vapors of a vanquished enemy from years ago.
One of the writers here stated – banks, auto companies, and healthcare have been “nationalized”. But that’s not the truth. That is a perversion of the truth. Serious times, war time, financial crisis time, times like this demand the truth. That is why I am insisting good people in the Republican Party pay due respect to truth.
Banks and one auto manufacturer temporarily Subsidized. Bailed out. Equity taken as collateral. All with a clear exit strategy. NOT nationalized. A policy initiated NOT by this President, not by liberals, not by Democrats, not by marxist sympathizers – but by President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Supported by conservatives. A policy passed on to the current President. Who will soon have enough mistakes of his own to claim, but the policy of bailing out and taking equity was handed off to him as a baton, attempting to outrace what President Bush called “total financial collapse”. President Bush said the banks would fail “including those in your community”. I was all for it. When we were all wondering if our little banks accounts would be lost, we were all for it. It was a month before the election in November 2008.
Some of those firms already paid back, reclaimed private status. That leaves the question: What exactly has been done since January 2009 that leads to frantic charges of Marxism/Communism directed at Obama and his supporters? TV shows. Cheesy TV shows.
Voices on TV radio dancing in the heads of innocent patriots looking to protect the American Way. That passion to keep America strong is a demographic exploited by entertainment companies, cheapened into a commodity, an audience made fearful, then packaged and peddled to eager advertisers selling gold, sleeping pills and heartburn medicine.
“Nationalization” means the government seizes complete control of private property by government edict. That cannot happen in any significant way in the United States. In 1952 President Truman ordered his Commerce Secretary to seize the steel industry for reasons of National Security. The result was a landmark Supreme Court decision “The Steel Seizure Case” saying the government can’t do that. Can’t just “nationalize” stuff. Not gonna do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstown_Sheet_&_Tube_Co._v._Sawyer
You cannot possibly have Marxism or communism without nationalizing everything. So if you are worried about Marxism, you are really saying that you are worried that we will abolish the Constitution.
If you are worried about single payer health insurance, that is an entirely different matter, a policy matter to be decided in a democratic way, with no connection to Marxism. Call it what you will, insult it all you want, but Canada is not Marxism. The Veterans Administration, TriCare, Medicare, and Medicaid are not Marxism. They are American inventions time again supported by a free society expressing their will at the polls.
Not only is Marxism a defunct relic of the last century that nobody is interested in, except university professors and out of date extremists, it’s not possible to implement Marxism in the United States without armed insurrection or military surrender to some Marxist enemy abroad. Some way to get rid of the Constitution. Not only is the Constitution the blueprint for liberty, it’s an invulnerable shield against tyrannies like Marxism. During the Cold War nobody was worried we would get suckered into voting Communists, make some slippery slope slide into a communist dictatorship -the fear was they would blow us up, surround us, strangle us and force us to be communists. That’s over now.
That’s why guys like me, who in their heart are conservative Republicans, think it’s so lame for the base of the Party to be talking about the President and his supporters as if we who voted for him have some sympathy with Marxism, communism. It is the big Orwell Lie. It is a giant concession to stupidity. It is in keeping with the professional wrestling Howard Stern Glen Beck Jerry Springer culture. The coarse cheap cheesy insult accompanied by the temper tantrum. It is being pushed by nuts on radio and TV. Those who are suckered in by this cheap shit approach to civic affairs should reconsider what they are a part of.
Evan Q, I like being called boy. Give me a little insight into where you’re coming. So listen here “boy” what you are saying is not true. Plain wrong. Have a little humility. You said:
“So the Obama administration hasn’t been pitting the EVIL COPORATE LEADER MINORITY against the American worker? Really? The Obama administration doesn’t support the message of unions who are exploiting the Marxist ideology that business leaders are evil and the workers must unite to destroy them? Obama and his administration haven’t moved at all to take ANY ownership of companies (especially those industries dominated by union labor?) *cough GM Cough* right….gotcha”
You are plain wrong. Extreme wrong. Confusing Union Members with Marxists. Unions do not mean communism dude. Corporations are not evil. Who feeds you this crap? Total fiction. All lies. How many freakin’ times do you have to hear the facts before you stop making shit up?
1. *cough GM Cough* BUSH IS THE PRESIDENT WHO SAID WE NEEDED TO BUY INTO THE BANKS AND GM – NOT OBAMA. OBAMA AGREED WITH BUSH AND CHENEY. For God’s sake man Goggle October 2008 for the President Bush’s emergency addresses to the Nation on banks and auto companies. Stop saying that was something Obama did. Say it once it’s a mistake. Say it twice it’s just plain ignorant.
2. YOU and only you sir, are the one using the word EVIL. Don’t you get it? You and Rush and Glen are saying somebody unnamed person thinks business and capitalism are EVIL. But nobody in the real world, not Obama not the Union leader ever said that. You are making shit up.
YOU said there are people telling workers that “business leaders are evil and the workers must unite to destroy them”. That workers must untie to destroy business leaders. Really Evan? Somebody is encouraging us to destroy business leaders?
I ask who is saying that? Only you. Only Rush. Only Glen. Not union leaders. Not the President. It part of that make believe world I am trying to bust up.
How about if I say, “you know Evan Q. all those right wingers who think Union leaders should be rounded up and put in concentration camps, destroyed”. Then you say – would said that? Then I say – you know all those right wingers who say that. Then you say – who? Then I say – you know.
Get real man. Only people I ever heard talk about corporate America being evil is conservatives trying to explain what they think liberals think. That’s way different from the truth.
Maybe in the twisted world of fanatics anybody who supports unions is Marxists. Most Americans consider union members just plain old red blooded American Union Members. Maybe in the twisted world anybody who talks about greed or corruption is Marxist. I call it just being an American.
Teddy Roosevelt busting up the monopolies complaining about them sucking everybody dry, must have been a Marxist even before Lenin. We busted up big bad AT&T under the Reagan watch in 1984, used antitrust laws saying they controlled too much telecommunications. Sound like a Reagan Marxist plot? We got enemies all over the place, just not where you are looking.
To be honest I am newly awake to this political stuff. I didn’t start catching on to the fact that Marxism wasn’t dead, but had just changed faces and tactics until a couple years ago. Others have realized that or at least suspected it longer than I have. However, as I have read books and yes, listened to people like Glenn Beck (who incidentally was talking about Marxism in America before the 2008 elections) I have realized that there has been a gradual creep of Marxism into this nation for decades now. I was one of the people that started to stand up against it durring the second term of President Bush. Immigration was the wake up call. It was all about the laborers. Conservatives in Delaware are just as concerned about Rep. Castle’s vote for TARP as they are about his vote for Cap n Trade. I didn’t want either.
I am going to try to work with the CIA description of Marxism even though it has its limitations because it is a decent starting point and we do need to have some basis for understanding in order to carry on a conversation. I don’t think their definition has any neccessary conflicts with what I have said about Marxism in America. I have never made the claim that America was already a fully Marxist nation. I have made the claim that it is here though and has been gradually creeping into our nation over the course of decades.
“One of the writers here stated – banks, auto companies, and healthcare have been “nationalized”. But that’s not the truth. That is a perversion of the truth. Serious times, war time, financial crisis time, times like this demand the truth. That is why I am insisting good people in the Republican Party pay due respect to truth. ”
I personally will not claim that there is a full fledged nationalization of any of those sectors yet. I acknowledge that some people, icluding myself at times, take something that is true and then go beyond it. A lot of Community Banks, and Ford are still independent. However, I will assert that the process of nationalization has begun. Unless I missed the news story, while some of the banks may have paid back their stimulus money, I have not heard about the Government selling back any of its shares of the banks or auto companies which it assumed durring their bailouts and bankruptcies. Also the Health Care Reform bill is a step in the direction of nationalizing that sector. I am glad that the American people were able to ensure that it was a small step.
“What exactly has been done since January 2009 that leads to frantic charges of Marxism/Communism directed at Obama and his supporters? ”
As I mentioned before Marxism was creeping into America long before 2009. What happened in 2009? A lot of things, and they showed me that the downward trend towards Marxism had only grown steeper. Here are some of the flashy red flags; Van Jones, Valerie Jarret, Mark Lloyd, and Mao on the Christmas Tree. I am assuming you are aware of the story on all of them. I can elaborate if you aren’t. The President pushing out the CEO of GM was another. Having our debt China (one of those Communist nations) continue to balloon also throws up flags.
““Nationalization” means the government seizes complete control of private property by government edict. That cannot happen in any significant way in the United States. In 1952 President Truman ordered his Commerce Secretary to seize the steel industry for reasons of National Security. The result was a landmark Supreme Court decision “The Steel Seizure Case” saying the government can’t do that. Can’t just “nationalize” stuff. Not gonna do that.”
A couple of years ago I would have belived that, no problem. However, in this decade I awakened to the fact that our government has gotten out of control on many levels. One is expanding overuse and abuse of eminent domain. Also I see the Congress and State Legislature ignoring their own rules and procedures in order to get what they want and what they think will serve the greater good.
“You cannot possibly have Marxism or communism without nationalizing everything. So if you are worried about Marxism, you are really saying that you are worried that we will abolish the Constitution.”
I AM concerned that the Constitution might be abolished. However, they don’t even need to do that. If they keep on the path of ignoring rules and laws that get in their way the Constitution will become what you say Marxism is now. I sat there on the last day of the Legislative Session in Delaware and watched our Legislature violate the State Constitution. It was the most amazing thing to me though it was a small thing to them. Then I saw the Congress violate its own rules in order to get the vote on the Health Care bill. Yes, I am worried about our Constitution becoming a thing of the past.
“During the Cold War nobody was worried we would get suckered into voting Communists, make some slippery slope slide into a communist dictatorship -the fear was they would blow us up, surround us, strangle us and force us to be communists. That’s over now.”
If you don’t think Americans were worried about Marxist infiltrating and subverting America from within than what was McCarthyism? Right or wrong the McCarthy trials are clear proof that Americans were looking within and without our country for the threat of Communism. Your fears may be over but that doens’t mean Marxism is.
“Not only is Marxism a defunct relic of the last century that nobody is interested in, except university professors and out of date extremists, it’s not possible to implement Marxism in the United States without armed insurrection or military surrender to some Marxist enemy abroad. Some way to get rid of the Constitution. Not only is the Constitution the blueprint for liberty, it’s an invulnerable shield against tyrannies like Marxism.”
The Constitution is not invulnerable, nor does it make us invulnerable. It is extremely vulnerable and so are we. It requires the continued dedication of the American people to uphold and secure it. Unfortunatly we fell asleep for a long time. If Americans don’t pay attention to the Constitution than it all falls appart and it can help no one.
Timothy speaks the truth and echoes anything I could have said. The fact is that no one here is defending Bush either. He was as much a contributor to the Marxists gaining control of the leadership of our country as Obama is. The difference is that Obama is in fact a complicit Marxist who is pushing forward an agenda specifically DESIGNED to take the country down and instate a system of Marxist Socialism.
In reality, Mr. “think123″, you obviously have not done a great deal of “thinking” (or reading) for that matter about our founding fathers. You claim we’ve been redistributing the wealth in our country from the beginning which is an absolute falsehood. In fact, nearly every one (including I might add, Alexander Hamilton) believed that every man was entitled to his own property and that no bread (read as: assets) should be taken from he that has earned it. Plain and simple the founding fathers, through their writings beginning as early as the mid 18th century clearly laid out their expectation that America would remain a free and independent state with all rights descending from the creator (God, Allah, Buddah, etc.) to the people directly and that the only rights the government had were those which the individuals lent them. This went for local government (who had the majority of the authority), state governments (who had much less but far more than the federal government) and for the Federal government. It was decided that there were some basic needs of any society
1.) Defense/Safety – While each citizen has the right to keep and bear arms in defense of his person, family or property the 18th century showed the imperialist nature of other nations and as a newly formed Republic America needed the states to be United in the Common Defense of the nation. They learned from the Revolutionary War that a standing army while undesireable by many of the “freedom wing” was necessary. It was however to be kept both of sufficient size to deter and/or defeat aggressors and small enough to ensure it could not be used to dominate the local militias.
2.) Justice – The Founders saw that with any new nation a system of laws and regulations must be created. The idea was that Congress would bring the whim of the people to the floor of the House. It was expectated that the floor of the House would produce the craziest of legislation (like this healthcare debacle that I am sure think123 is all in favor of) and would either pass or reject it as the political winds swept through. Why? Because the floor of the House was supposed to be Jr. legislators who were closest to the people and could be their voice. (can anyone say our rep is “close to us”?) It was also expected that the Senate who would be the Sr. and more calm legislators would pass or reject bills that appeared to be Constitutional and within the scope of the federal governments quite limited and defined powers (back then they understood what the word LIMITED meant). The Executive branch was in place to be the figure head of the government. In fact, during the Adams Presidency, there were times when Adams was hardly the one making the “final decisions”. Finally, the security blanket for the people was to be the Supreme Court. They were supposed to review all federal laws (it would take them nearly 25 years of round the clock work just to catch up on all the federal laws written since 2000 not to mention going back to the 1930′s when the Supreme Court stopped being proactive) for Constituionality and to either uphold or repeal them. In fact, in the early years of our nation the Supreme Court was so proactive that it would review each and every law passed by the Congress and would sometimes issue rulings before the President had signed the bill.
3.) Ensure Tranquility – This was designed to go hand in hand with estalblishing Justice and providing for the common defense of the nation. The idea was to deter and supress violent uprisings (like the Revolution itself) within the states. The way it was accomplished was through equal reqresentation to all communities and strict adherence by the government to the system of power established and agreed upon.
How Rights (definded as powers) would transfer:
Creator -> People -> Local/Municpal Government -> County Government -> State Government -> Federal Government
This assured that the PEOPLE of the several states were in fact the gurantors of all rights and privileges that the government enjoyed and that all of these rights and privileges were temporary and defined as specific.
As far as the founders intended:
No government was supposed to take ANYTHING from a private citizen (or privately owned company) except as the law permitted them to do so as a penalty for the comission of a crime (and at that time there were VERY few instances where the government could seize property even for that reason). No government was allowed to force Americans to buy a product to become a citizen.
These are NOT optional, not even by a “society expressing it’s will at the polls”.
“The Veterans Administration, TriCare, Medicare, and Medicaid are not Marxism. They are American inventions time again supported by a free society expressing their will at the polls.” – think123
With regards to TriCare and the VA…please leave things that the people grant to the brave men and women who risk their FREAKING LIVES in the defense of our nation out of this. Not that you would understand what that actually means. Even if you’ve served, it’s clear you didn’t do it willingly or with the reverence that most of the men and women in our military do it with. You really are slime to even bring this up. (and by the way, these programs aren’t even on the RADAR as far as Constituionality and/or fiscal burden)
1.) TriCare and the VA provide services to members of the military and provide an essential service for Constitutionally mandated sectors of our government. I’m FINE with that (in fact, we ought to take this ridiculous overspending on Medicare/Medicaid and send it to the VA so our men and women get proper treatment.
2.) What a ridiculous statement OF COURSE Medicare/Medicaid is Marxism you twit. Good God you are uninformed, now I see why Glenn Beck calls people like you “Idiots” READ A BOOK! (or atleast one whose author doesn’t end with “sky”) (Oh…right and for think123 who is I’m sure scratching his head wondering what I meant…that’s a reference to the many works of men whose last names end in “sky” Saul Alinsky – “Rules for Radicals”, Leon Trotsky (Russian Marxist) and others) Medicare/Medicaid are GOVERNMENT CONTROL of the healthcare system. They’re also fiscal drains on our economy and the unfunded liabilities from them have already indebted our children/grandchildren (not that you give a DAMN about anyone but yourself) to the government for decades. The Federal Government has used Medicare/Medicaid to artifically influence the cost of healthcare overall. They have consistently kept private insurance and healthcare costs high by driving down the price the government will pay for services rendered. The government also controls medical patents, drug enforcement and it’s advisory boards have become litle more than rationing bodies designed to shift costs from one sector to another. Not to mention that the Marxist influences of union bosses (yes, unions are influenced by Marxist thought…don’t believe me? Read up on what the leadership of SEIU, the AMA, the NEA and the AFL-CIO have been influenced by) have permeated the healthcare delivery field and rendered nearly a quarter of our nations caregivers as union slaves.
Then again most of this is moot because like the good little liberal idiot you are, you’ll blame it on Bush… Rush… Beck… “right wing talk radio”…”conservatives”…Fox News or some other faceless entity that you think everyone else hates the way you do. It’s ok to be a Marxist think123…seriously, I’m FINE with disliking people based on their political ideologies. I’m OK with there being people in America that I simply don’t like, don’t agree with and spend time arguing against. That’s perfectly fine. I’m even ok with LOSING that argument…however, where it gets personal and when I lose respect for that person is when the person ignores the truth, distorts reality and flat out LIES to make their point. *I* can back up my points with facts, figures and sources. YOU on the other hand want to wave your Obi-Wan Kenobe hand across the face of others and convince them that what the are seeing isn’t really there. You’ve shown a complete lack of integrity and a disrespect for everything the Founders stood for. You want to redistribute the wealth? Fine, let’s have that debate. Let’s cover the pros and cons of both sides but don’t distort the facts by claiming the founders themselves were redistributing wealth because it is ABUNDANTLY clear through the DOZENS of sources we have that the founders were absolutely against the government “evening the playing field”. You even said the Revolution was about redistribution which is a flat out LIE and you MUST know it. No one can be so stupid as to miss the fact that the Revolution was about REPRESENTATION (or a lack thereof…just like today’s TEA Party movement I might add) and about the governments attacks on individual rights as declared by the ENGLISH Bill of Rights written many years earlier. Your lies will not work here…perhaps Delaware Liberal would like to hear your drivel.
We all know Marxism exists, mainly in books. It’s just irrelevant...think
Socialism is ‘Marxism.’ ‘Socialism’ leads, incrementally, toward the elimination of private property and the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ (requiring, of course, a “vanguard of the dictatorship of the proletariata,” as Lenin put it) envisioned by Marx himself. The ‘heavy, progressive tax on incomes’ and the public school system as a propaganda centers is straight out of the ‘Manifesto.’ If you don’t believe it, fine; but most of us are educated enough to realize that either you don’t know what you’re talking about, or, you are sympathetic to socialism, or both.