UPDATED: OBAMA’S ASTROTURF
Aug 13th, 2009 by MariaEvans
Yes, “astroturf” has finally been located at a town hall meeting about health care.
I’m going to give you the Cliff’s Notes version, and urge you to read the original blog post by Matt Bramandi at LoneStarTimes.com with a big ole HAT TIP to him for knowing when to use Google.
Here’s apparently how it went down:
At the Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee health care town hall meeting where this happened:
During a question from Tracy Miller, self-identified as both a constituent and a cancer survivor, Rep. Jackson Lee picked up her cell phone from the podium and took a call. The entire room was abuzz, with both those for and against recognizing the rudeness of such behavior. It didn’t faze Rep. Jackson Lee at all, she continued talking and finished her conversation.
(*cough cough* Reps. Pelosi and Hoyer? is that an “un-American” etiquette faux pas, too?)
Rep. Lee takes a question, when she’s not on the phone, from a woman who identifies herself as a “general practitioner”, but Holy Astroturf, Batman she’s not! She is, though, one of our President’s Organize for America lackeys. Check out the fake “doctor” on YouTube, especially the part where Rep. Lee hugs her afterwards, yeah, I know, I was touched by it all, too.
Now, a week ago I got this e-mail from our Commander-n-Chief urging me to “commit” to going to an event like this (my emphasis, edited for just the pertinent parts):
Maria –
This is the moment our movement was built for…
There are those who profit from the status quo, or see this debate as a political game, and they will stop at nothing to block reform. They are filling the airwaves and the internet with outrageous falsehoods to scare people into opposing change. And some people, not surprisingly, are getting pretty nervous. So we’ve got to get out there, fight lies with truth, and set the record straight.
That’s why Organizing for America is putting together thousands of events this month where you can reach out to neighbors, show your support, and make certain your members of Congress know that you’re counting on them to act.
But these canvasses, town halls, and gatherings only make a difference if you turn up to knock on doors, share your views, and show your support. So here’s what I need from you:
Can you commit to join at least one event in your community this month?…
Thank you,
President Barack Obama
And I’ve gotta ask…Is this how your movement “sets the record straight,” Mr President? Ms. Mayer, your bus awaits….
First of all, Maria, the Lee incident is anecdotal, therefore does not reflect at all on the many Congress members, Dem and Repub alike, who seek to know the views of their constituents. Therefore giving it the “astroturf” moniker is not appropriate. It does represent unbelievable rudeness on the part of Rep Lee, assuming your description did not leave out any salient details. That said, Obama has no control over this kind of behavior, so to associate him with it is ludicrous and partisan poppycock!
Astroturf relates to those fringe folks who think it is just fine to go to a town hall meeting and disrupt it, shouting the lies and distortions that are part and parcel of their approach to democracy.
We’ve had many examples of astroturf tactics, which do not represent anecdotes, but do represent organized activities of disruption. Do you support this denial of free speech and the democratic process, Maria?
Secondly, for those who are proud of our perception of American values, these disrupters are indeed “un-American”, as is Rep Lee’s rude behavior, as is Roxana Mayer’s falsely identifying herself as a physician!
Another devious liberal bites the dust.
Update:
So now we’re reporting speculation, a la the reputable, non-partisan, truthful Michelle Malkin, as if it were fact, then attacking the young girl and her mother. That’s called a straw man (woman) fallacy, Maria!
Good luck with your anecdote-hunting. I’m sure if you try hard enough, you will find two or three more stories to try to justify the waves of thousands of birthers and deathers and Hitler-moustache screamers.
I guess the moral is, if you are going to a town hall meeting to tell lies, it’s OK as long as they are deeply felt, authentic lies.
I agree with Perry……”attacking the young girl and her mother”.
For shame, you nasty Republicans ! Don’t you know there are more important things to be concerned about? Like….oh, I don’t know….Sarah Palin’s wardrobe expenditures?
Perry, you need to catch up on your rhetoric. “Astroturf” is the terminology that democrat leaders are applying to the town hall protesters because, of course, they couldn’t be there because of their convictions.
I would have to say that an Obama “Organize for America” person would have to go in that “astroturf” category. Especially one pretending to be a doctor.
~ “First of all, Maria, the Lee incident is anecdotal…” ~
So far it is….
As for the girl from the NH forum, it’s clear her mother is an Obama supporter. Hundreds of people attend an event and this little girl just happens to get the honor of asking a question…
noman, yeah, “thousands”. Exaggerate much?
How many do you estimate, Maria?
~ “How many do you estimate, Maria?” ~
You grouped a lot together, noman, for effect…”birthers,” “deathers,” and “Hitler-moustache screamers” under your “waves of thousands”.
I guess that would be to give the appearance of “thousands” of “Hitler-moustache screamers” when there were only a scant few examples of that….
The rest…I would say the closest you have to “thousands” may be the people you describe as “deathers” but since we have no clear legislation that’s ready for a vote, I wouldn’t want to jump ahead and say their concerns aren’t valid….
Glad to know what Perry deems “un-American.”
All those loud and boisterous anti-war protestors were “un-American,” then. Or, will pathetic Perry try to meander his way into explaining how they were not “un-American?”
I mean, wow — McCarthy must not have been that bad, eh? After all, what’s more un-American — rooting out Communists whose goal is to destroy America, or a loud protestor invoking our Founding Fathers?
noman – You liberals have short memories don’t you? As I recall there were quite a few rather detailed pictures done of President Bush made up to look like Hitler. I remember some left wing loons showing up at his events calling him a “murderer” and accusing him of “war crimes”. I also seem to remember vicious liberal attacks on a certain Alaskan mother and claims that said Alaskan mother’s down syndrome baby was actually her teenage daughters.
I must be confusing those events with OTHER liberals..because I KNOW you wouldn’t be a hypocrite.
I remember some left wing loons showing up at his events calling him a “murderer” and accusing him of “war crimes”.
At least there was an actual WAR to point to, unlike the teabaggers who just make crap up, whatever they think sounds bad for the President.
LOL … (at no-man, Perry, et. al. who just refuse to see the hypocrisy …)
That’s all one can do, after all …
noman, didn’t Biden say the economic crisis is a “war”?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17097.html
~~ “Vice-president-elect Joe Biden likened the country’s economic crisis to the attacks of 9/11 Monday in a private meeting on Capitol Hill.
“We’re at war,” Biden told congressional leaders of both parties during their sit-down with Barack Obama in the Capitol, according to two sources familiar with the exchange.” ~~
noman – is there ever an excuse to villify someone as Hitler? I would contend there is not an excuse to do that. Provided of course they aren’t rounding up one class of people to have them killed. Anywho…let me address your concern about “teabaggers”….Which lies are the townhall goers spreading? Please do tell. All I’ve seen are concerned citizens WHO ARE NOW FORCED TO READ THE PROPOSED BILLS FOR THEMSELVES THANKS TO INCOMPETENT LEGISLATORS asking about specific sections which are actually in the House Resolution H.R.3200 which is the “proposed bill” that the Obama administration has been in favor of. Please point out an instance where a healthcare related falsehood has been knowingly propogated. I’d LOVE to hear this….
And I’m not talking about you putting your spin on it either. Show me one mainstream concern of the townhall attendees that isn’t ACTUALLY IN THE HOUSE RESOLUTION…Just 1…I’ll wait
December 2008: Biden said that a stimulus package was needed to keep the economy from “absolutely tanking.”
Looks like we won that war. Thanks, Joe.
Show me one mainstream concern of the townhall attendees that isn’t ACTUALLY IN THE HOUSE RESOLUTION…Just 1…I’ll wait
Hmmm… will you accept townhall sympathizers, or do I need to find media from actual town halls?
~~ “Looks like we won that war. Thanks, Joe.” ~~
Yeah, I could tell the war was over by the high unemployment rate and the still rising foreclosure rate. Maybe you’re flying that “Mission Accomplished” banner a little too soon, noman.
Perry….a complete waste of time. I don’t even come to this site half the time because of him.
Why doesn’t he hang around with his own?
LOL @ Maria’s #18!! Perfect!!
I don’t even come to this site half the time because of him.
Perry – can you start coming here twice as much?
Show me one mainstream concern of the townhall attendees that isn’t ACTUALLY IN THE HOUSE RESOLUTION
Working on it.. normally I don’t accept BS challenges to do homework to prove the obvious… but this is fun. It takes a little time though to transcribe from the YouTubes of these screaming maniacs…
noman – personally I would prefer links to your likely error filled transcriptions
Show me one mainstream concern of the townhall attendees that isn’t ACTUALLY IN THE HOUSE RESOLUTION…Just 1…I’ll wait
There, that didn’t take long.
This one happened with real, FOX-fueled constituents in a town hall meeting with a real Congressman. I was really impressed with the decency and intelligence of Rep. Green. If you have the time you should watch the whole series of YouTubes of this meeting.
CAST:
Rep. Gene Green (D-TX 29th District): Conducting a town hall meeting in North Houston on August 4, 2009.
Crazy Old Coot: Reading from the Fleckstein Slander… it is truly pathetic because he honestly thinks he is reading from the actual bill.
Chorus: Urban redneck Houstonites, fueled by FOX and Rush.
There was a ‘stacked deck symposium’ on ‘health care’ at Lewes last night. No hacks showed their faces but some of their lackeys were present. The influence of the ObamaCare gang was not obvious to casual observers but the influence of the thugs at SEIU could be detected.
noman was that an actual “Crazy Old Coot” or one planted there by Organize for America?
What do you think, Maria?
Maybe we should google the guy and see if he’s another one of Obama’s campaign workers…like the fake doctor in Texas.
He seems pretty authentic to me. Dementia is hard to fake. But I’ve done enough homework; now it’s your turn.
hmmm and who was our fake doctor (but real Obama Delagate to the convention) sitting next to (with?)
http://lonestartimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/roxanamayer1.jpg
http://lonestartimes.com/images/2008/02/marisa-and-barack.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_thpf11KOyB0/R9xQJlmF1ZI/AAAAAAAAAIA/RHkWVjBpIUY/s400/ObamaHoustonOfcCheFlagPlus.jpg
page 354, section 177 is titled:
“SEC. 1177. EXTENSION OF AUTHORITY OF SPECIAL NEEDS PLANS TO RESTRICT ENROLLMENT. ”
If they’re not going to “restrict enrollment” maybe they can find a better title for that section.
And noman, I think Obama opened this can of worms himself with the “Crazy Old Coots,” as you call them, when he made these statements:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aGrKbfWkzTqc
~~ President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care…
“I don’t know how much that hip replacement cost,” Obama said in the interview. “I would have paid out of pocket for that hip replacement just because she’s my grandmother.”
Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.
“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.” ~~
Or when he said that people might be better off “taking the pain pill” instead of having surgery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo
noman – Please see attached ACTUAL WORDING COPIED FROM H.R.3200….
“Page 425, line 413, you will be counseled how to live the end of your life.”
Pg 425
—>5 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
8sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
9scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
12 consultation shall include the following:
13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad
14vance care planning, including key questions and
15 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo
16ple to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad
18vance directives, including living wills and durable
19 powers of attorney, and their uses.
20 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
24sumers and their families with advance care plan
25ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
Page 426
1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
2 service organizations (including those funded
3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
4 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
5 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
6able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
7fits for such services and supports that are available
8 under this title.
9 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
10 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
11 orders, which shall include—
12 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
13 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
14 the individual’s family and the reasons why
15 such an order should be updated periodically as
16 the health of the individual changes;
17 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi18
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci
19sions regarding the completion of such an
20 order; and
21 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
22 an individual may use to determine the require
23ments of the State in which such individual re
24sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi
25vidual will be carried out if the individual is11 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara
12graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat
13ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in
15clude indications respecting, among other items—
16 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
17 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
18 or pulmonary problems;
19 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
20 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set
21ting;
22 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
23 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri
24tion and hydration.’’.3 SEC. 1177. EXTENSION OF AUTHORITY OF SPECIAL NEEDS
4 PLANS TO RESTRICT ENROLLMENT.
5 (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 1859(f)(1) of the Social
6 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–28(f)(1)) is amended by
7 striking ‘‘January 1, 2011’’ and inserting ‘‘January 1,
8 2013 (or January 1, 2016, in the case of a plan described
9 in section 1177(b)(1) of the America’s Affordable Health
10 Choices Act of 2009)’’.
11 (b) GRANDFATHERING OF CERTAIN PLANS.—
12 (1) PLANS DESCRIBED.—For purposes of sec
13tion 1859(f)(1) of the Social Security Act (42
14 U.S.C. 1395w–28(f)(1)), a plan described in this
15 paragraph is a plan that had a contract with a State
16 that had a State program to operate an integrated
17 Medicaid-Medicare program that had been approved
18 by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services as
19 of January 1, 2004.
20 (2) ANALYSIS; REPORT.—The Secretary of
21 Health and Human Services shall provide, through
22 a contract with an independent health services eval
23uation organization, for an analysis of the plans de
24scribed in paragraph (1) with regard to the impact
25 of such plans on cost, quality of care, patient satis-
355
1 faction, and other subjects as specified by the Sec
2retary. Not later than December 31, 2011, the Sec
3retary shall submit to Congress a report on such
4 analysis and shall include in such report such rec
5ommendations with regard to the treatment of such
6 plans as the Secretary deems appropriate.<—-
The “coots’” personal interpretation of the actual meaning of these legal clauses is, while within reason given what we’ve seen governments do, still his own interpretations. The legal speak in the bill is vague enough to allow the interpretations that are being levied against the clauses. That said, on page 430 you can see that the government clearly intends for the “End of Life Counseling Session” to include the discussion of when to “pull the plug on grandma” or more specifically when to discontinue life support for an elderly person.
Now the Demo-Marxists are busing-in ACORN maggots from the inner-city to suburban town hall meetings. Gee, I wonder why?
Evan claims: ““Page 425, line 413, you will be counseled how to live the end of your life.”
Evan, why do you persist with this nonsense that is not in the bill?
Noman dealt with this effectively in #24.
I seriously doubt if you even read the part of the bill that you question here.
I have examined the pertinent sections of HR 3200 carefully, and will tell you point blank that nowhere in this bill does your language appear.
Moreover, there is no wording that even suggests that the consultations are mandatory; on the contrary, they are voluntary.
I find it quite curious that you characterize the language here to be “vague”, yet out of this “vague” language you and your ilk want to make the case for “pulling the plug on grandma” against her will. There is no such intent written or implied.
Your distortion is simply false and outrageous!
Evan claims: ““Page 425, line 413, you will be counseled how to live the end of your life.”
Evan, why do you persist with this nonsense that is not in the bill?
Noman dealt with this effectively in #24.
I seriously doubt if you even read the part of the bill that you question here.
I have examined the pertinent sections of HR 3200 carefully, and will tell you point blank that nowhere in this bill does your language appear.
Moreover, there is no wording that even suggests that the consultations are mandatory; on the contrary, they are voluntary.
I find it quite curious that you characterize the language here to be “vague”, yet out of this “vague” language you and your ilk want to make the case for “pulling the plug on grandma” against her will. There is no such intent written or implied.
Your distortion is simply false and outrageous!
This is what Obama was saying in MAY. No wonder people are worried there will be “death panels”. Sorry, Perry, Obama opened this can-o-worms with his own words:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03Obama-t.html?pagewanted=all
And it’s going to be hard for people who don’t have the option of paying for it.
THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?
I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.
So how do you — how do we deal with it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country20making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.
Maria, you already got pwned on this topic a while ago. No matter how many column-inches the deathers paste in here, it doesn’t say what you say it does.
In order to see death panels, a suicide program, or denial of care, you have to build a palace of crap on top of the actual words of the President or of the bill… and then go find your points inside the palace.
I am always flummoxed at how these “IT DOESN’T SAY THAT” folks are so defensive — when Obama lies and misstates things every single freakin’ time he speaks on the subject.
Absolutely amazing.
these “IT DOESN’T SAY THAT” folks
Just call me a strict constructionist.
Except when it comes to what the president actually says …that’s convenient.
No noman, Obama doesn’t have to SAY EXACTLY “there will be death panels” but saying this:
~~”I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance.”~~
Think of it this way…George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, Colin Powell…they never actually SAID that Iraq was behind 9/11…but the left continually pointed out that they said enough to make the clear IMPLICATION that there was a connection, which apparently was sufficient then. Right, Perry? That was always your point.
Your point seems to be that since he said it wouldn’t be “determinative” that there is some kind of loophole so granny won’t get unplugged if she against it. But he doesn’t say that the ultimate determination would be made by the patient or the family, either, if you want to be so literal.
The bottom line is that the reason people are concerned about “death panels” is because of the President’s own words just a scant 3 months ago.
doesn’t the fact that senate dems are talking about taking the “end of life counciling” provisions out of the senate bill confirm that the “Death Panel” side was correct???